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Thread: Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

  1. #11
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    I've been using black RTV for 13 years, it always works. Don't ask me why, when I first started when I was 19, the older guys in the shop told me to use it, and I've never had a repeat repair, except the one time I used grey rtv, and the time I tried bumper epoxy. (Both on my 87 T-Bird, but I didn't know any better at the time) Any time I did it the old timers' way, I never saw the car again for the same repair. As to the reason they originally come off in the first place, our cars are all at least 25 years old. That's a lot of cycles, and depending where you live, thermal cycling is even worse (think 0 degrees to whatever the door warms up to once the car's heat has been running). Speaking of cold weather, anybody ever get their window frozen shut? There's a reasonably finite number of times an adhesive bond can withstand that, and the reason a silicone adhesive was used by Ford and ,to the best of my knowledge, it's technicians is that it's an engineered weak point to prevent damage to other components (think fuse link). Who wants their window to break?, or the fastening points in the door to tear out?, because I've seen them all, and I'd rather have the tabs come off the window. It's easier to fix. Of course, most of the newer stuff now uses nylon connectors and hardware, or the weak point is engineered into the regulator in the form of a nylon pulley wheel, etc. But you guys with custom fixes are painting yourselves into a corner. Fixing it to death. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match, but I know how to fix it, and I know why it's best fixed that way.

    As for the actuator bushing, spend 2.25 on a new bushing and a pop rivet, it's faster than making one or harvesting one. Just sayin.
    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73 LSD, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  2. #12
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    I hope you guys realize that this is a VERY good conversation/debate. For years all I've seen is silicone this, jb weld that, windshield adhesive, etc. I was hoping to find the actual culprit of the problem and find a solution for everyone who may search for this problem on the message board.

    So my question now - how do I remove the regulator? I have to cut a couple holes in the dampening mat to get to the bolts, which I foolishly covered up a few years back.

  3. #13
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    Silicone has NEVER worked for me . it just won't stick to the glass well enough. The window weld by 3m that Tom posted the link to has worked, as well as some other application specific products . YMMV

  4. #14
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    Different RTV formulations have different colors, everybody knows this. Blue RTV is primarily for sealing liquid in metal, Orange RTV has a high temperature tolerance and is only useful in exhaust (some guys do this, I prefer a good gasket), clear RTV is used to seal liquids against plastic, grey RTV is used in high pressure seals between metal especially aluminum, and black RTV is most useful sealing petroleum products against metals AND plastics. RTV is certainly NOT all the same, there are differences in hardness, chemical resistance, thermal tolerance, bond strength, set time, flexibility, etc. Your 3M product doesn't work for you, because it's made for sealing windshields and other fixed position glass such as quarter glass; our body shop uses tons of it for that purpose and to great effect. Most people who claim that nothing works aren't either cleaning the parts properly, aren't setting the tabs in the right place (you have to be careful because once you clean the glass your reference points may be gone), or aren't allowing a full 48 to 72 hours for the bond to fully cure before removing pressure from it, and inflexible bonds fail the fastest whether properly bonded or not. I wish there were a good way to retrofit the clamps used in F-150's since 04, they clamp on the same way, but using a bolt to squeeze the glass between two steel plates and rubber gaskets using a cantilever method, instead of a flexible adhesive, I've never seen one let go, I've only seen the ones they use in the 11 and newer edge/explorer crack the glass (which is a laminate 'sound screen' glass like your windshield, it has layers). Still, these would be better for us, that way we wouldn't have to bicker about adhesives.
    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73 LSD, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  5. #15
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    They're not setscrews, it's a bolt, a single bolt that passes below the window into the opposing plate and draws clamping force upon the window and there is one under the front of the glass and under the back of the glass. It works in the F-trucks and other vehicles which have no permanently attached tabs. They're also used starting on 2011 on Edge and Explorer, however, when over-torqued they crack the layered-glass window. And as for your mirror comment, now you're just being silly and useless to the purpose of the thread. A mirror mount doesn't require a flexible bond, and a mirror mount hangs against gravity, a power window does not. Don't forget the purpose of the thread, a guy asked for help. Getting sarcastic with me helps nobody.

    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73 LSD, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  6. #16
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    The 86 doors I delt with also had ahole in the glass. You could just stick a bolt through them with some rubber to stop it from rattling.

    The real problem is how the clips are held on. The clips don't just hold the window up and down, they also adhear to the window, and tension between the clips on the glass is what makes the window go down. It slides back and forth in the sliders. First tike it binds at all, it will pull the window off the tracks if there is bad adhesion.

    Windsheild adhesive is semi flexdible, and has probably 10 or 15 times the strength of silicone. If the window binds, it will not just rip off the clips the first time. Jb weld is solid, but has very little adhesion, and silicone is even less strong and less flexable. Using a solid channel acrossed the whole window makes it so the clips should have no side to side stress, an will take the rigidity of the mechanisium off the clips. This way all the channel has to do is hold the window.

    Really I'll bet most of it just stops bindng by taking the "play" out. The extra length in channel gives more surface area for adhesion. It fixes two Problems that the clips are supposed to do on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

  7. #17
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    The glass shop that does all of my work had sold me aluminum clips for one of my old cars (think it was an '88 Cougar). They totally replace the plastic clips and provide much more rigidity. Coupled with their glass adhesive, the metal clips totally solve all issues related to the glass detaching (1987-88 cars). I believe they were $25 each but he had tons of them in stock.

    Something that people just may want to explore. And honestly, the clips were very simply designed, could probably be easily manufactured by an entrepreneur-type.

  8. #18
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    Man, you guys are a curse....both of my door windows have pulled off of the clips in the last week or so. Thanks for nothin' fellas!

    Looks like I'll be getting some black RTV soon...
    '84 and '87 Mustangs
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    FORD forever!

  9. #19
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    It looks like a clear sillycone that don't hold squat period.


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  10. #20
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    In those pics it looks to me like the OEM glue wasn't removed before they "fixed" it, all adhesives need a clean fresh surface to work properly. I have never used black rtv or windshield adhesive they both could work for all I know.

    For the past 5 years or so I have used Automotive GOOP and have yet to have it fail on me, but I also take the time to make sure everything is clean, working properly/smoothly, and has plenty of time to cure before putting it back together. I also use the factory plastic mounting tabs, I just take the time to drill 2 small holes through each tab to allow the glue to seep through and scuff up the glass the best that I can. Not saying this is the best thing to use, just what has worked for me.

    Here is the link to it.
    http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CF4Q8wIwAg

    Good luck with your repair! Every bird that I have bought has had at least one window that has came loose!
    ...and there was light!

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