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Topic: 87 "coug" resto winter project (Read 64573 times) previous topic - next topic

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #30
If you lean the motor to far out it can cause detonation with is no bueno for pistons.  You can combat this by retarding the timing and run premium fuel for the higher octane rating.  My 331 has an Ed Curtis custom cam, ported Edelbrock heads, ported Edelbrock lower, 11:1 compression ratio, with 42 lb/hr injectors and it makes 21 to 22 on the highway with 3.73's and a stock '93 T-5 5th gear.  City mileage is all over the place because I cannot keep my foot out of it.

With all of that said if you guys are looking to just get it running then a stock HO cam and MAF setup would be fine but the power will be way down.  I would not be able to speak on the fuel mileage but I would wonder about it as the motor would by no means be efficient which makes me wonder if the fuel mileage would be in the tank.

Do some searches on the Mustang sites and I am sure there are some peeps that have done this and then stepped the hardware up later down the road.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #31
My opinion only, so take it as a grain of salt.

The 331 is a stroked motor. The bore remains the same. Assuming the same heads on a stock or stroked number will make the same power, just at different rpm's. The 331 will run out of breath quicker, meaning more power at lower engine speeds.

Not saying the h.o. cam is perfect, but i don't see it making a huge difference if you want a daily driver until you can save up some money. Your car also uses exponentially more fuel as rpm's increase. In my mind, all the 331 does is give you more low end torque.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #32
what bugs me is I "think" the pistons are still traveling down when the ho cam intake valve is closing.  same for exhaust.
I may be wrong.

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #33
Do some searches out on the Mustang sites like the Corral or SBFTech.com and I am sure this will come up.  May be as simple as advancing the cam a few degrees.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #34
here is a cam slightly better than stock... thoughts????
forgot to check the firing order on this one, ,, oops

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-308-8/


Brand:
COMP Cams


Manufacturer's Part Number:
35-308-8


Part Type:
Camshafts


Product Line:
COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Roller Camshafts


Summit Racing Part Number:
CCA-35-308-8

 


UPC:
036584017264


Cam Style:
Hydraulic roller tappet


Basic Operating RPM Range:
1,200-5,200


Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210


Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:
215


Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210 int./215 exh.


Advertised Intake Duration:
266


Advertised Exhaust Duration:
270


Advertised Duration:
266 int./270 exh.


Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 in.


Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 in.


Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 int./0.533 exh.


Lobe Separation (degrees):
114


Computer-Controlled Compatible:
Yes


Grind Number:
FW 266H-R14


Valve Springs Required:
Yes


Quantity:
Sold individually.


In-Store Pickup:
Choose In-store pick-up (OH, GA, NV) on our web site.

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #35
Ran that cam in the 306 which first went in my Coupe so that was three motors ago. It was a great cam for that motor but not sure about a 331. You really should call Comp and have them recommend a cam. It's free and they usually can find an off the shelf cam that will fit the bill.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #36
Quote from: jcassity;441425
here is a cam slightly better than stock... thoughts????
forgot to check the firing order on this one, ,, oops

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-308-8/


Brand:
COMP Cams


Manufacturer's Part Number:
35-308-8


Part Type:
Camshafts


Product Line:
COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Roller Camshafts


Summit Racing Part Number:
CCA-35-308-8

 


UPC:
036584017264


Cam Style:
Hydraulic roller tappet


Basic Operating RPM Range:
1,200-5,200


Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210


Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:
215


Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210 int./215 exh.


Advertised Intake Duration:
266


Advertised Exhaust Duration:
270


Advertised Duration:
266 int./270 exh.


Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 in.


Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 in.


Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 int./0.533 exh.


Lobe Separation (degrees):
114


Computer-Controlled Compatible:
Yes


Grind Number:
FW 266H-R14


Valve Springs Required:
Yes


Quantity:
Sold individually.


In-Store Pickup:
Choose In-store pick-up (OH, GA, NV) on our web site.

I'm running that cam in the 306 in my Thunderbird. With my combo it pulls to at least 5600rpm. In a 331 it would peak lower.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #37
yeah, im also going forged AL flat top pistons as well as milled as far as possible heads so I think your right,  Ill call comp tomorrow, Machine shop said the HO cam may be a little lean but he needs to measure it up with the pushrods coming in with the lifters and my 1.6 rockers to be sure.



thanks!

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #38
wow,, that was a productive phone call to comp

they said to get AL heads.  They barely would even help me when I told them I want to get it rolling with the 308 rear gear until we find the right rear .... sounded kind of snotty actually.
I guess if your not spending 30 grand on your build, you aren't worth talking to.
however condescending I feel the conversation went and setting that aside, the professional at comp recommended this cam  35-518-8 (will bleed off a little pressure with more overlap.

oh well.......

time to worry sick about the right cam.

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #39
Quote from: jcassity;441436
wow,, that was a productive phone call to comp

they said to get AL heads.  They barely would even help me when I told them I want to get it rolling with the 308 rear gear until we find the right rear .... sounded kind of snotty actually.
I guess if your not spending 30 grand on your build, you aren't worth talking to.
however condescending I feel the conversation went and setting that aside, the professional at comp recommended this cam  35-518-8 (will bleed off a little pressure with more overlap.

oh well.......

time to worry sick about the right cam.

They probably want you to do certain things to your build because it really won't make full power or run right if you don't. Realistically a 331 with iron factory heads is going to be a dog. They barely flow enough air for a 302. I gained 4-5mph and .4-.5 tenths in the quarter swapping from GT40P heads to Edelbrock Performer heads and they aren't even the best flowing aftermarket aluminum heads. That's a 40-50hp gain on a 306. The first Lightning pickups had a 351W with GT40 heads. They made 245hp. The factory iron heads are a choke on anything bigger than a 302.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.


87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #41
Quote
heads are from a member here
 1969 4v casting with April 29th 1972 foundry date. (requires 18mm thread plug which availability concerns me but oh well)
 302 / 71-74 / D1TZ-A,D2OE-BA / 58.2 / 1.78/1.45
 upgrades are :
 ~Ferrea 6000 valves with 1.94 Intake & 1.6 exhaust with bronze guides
 ~approc 54CC which should be as discussed around 10:1 compression
 ~Isky adjustable guide plates
 ~Cnc ported by Power Heads
 ~beehive springs with unknown seat pressure (will check this myself, desire about 110lbs
 ~3/8'' studded


They are factory heads. Even if they are ported to the max they will at most flow like a set of small aluminum heads (Edelbrock Performer/AFR 165/Twisted Wedge 170). Those small aluminum heads aren't big enough for a 331.
88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, bunch of other stuff.

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #42
You need to step back and take a hard look at what you are doing. If it were me I would find a stock 302 HO roller short block and put the heads and intake you have on it and get the car up and running. Take your time building the 331 sonit has the right parts and will build around 400 hp. This will also give your son some time to get used to the 300+ hp the 302 is going to build.

What I am saying may sting a bit but at this point it's money better spent. At a minimum you are going to need a 2-1/2" exhaust for the 331. You are also going to need a cam, heads, induction and a fuel system capable of supporting it which cost money. If you don't do this and install the 331 chances are it will vastly underperform and the 302 with the parts you currently have will out perform it.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #43
Why would a 331 with the same parts as a 302 make less power then a 302?

It won't. It will make the same power,  at a lower rpm, while increasing increasing torque, due to the longer stroke. It's not going to hurt it because he didn't spend 2 grand on a set of heads.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

87 "coug" resto winter project

Reply #44
My question is why build a $2000 short block and build the same power as a $400 low mile stock 302 short block? The 302 could be sold running for enough $$$ to pay for the 331 build. Anyhow, we all have ways of doing things and this is how I would go about it.

Good luck on the build as whatever you decide will definitely put out more power than the old V6.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang coupe that beat your mom's LTD