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Topic: Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup (Read 9097 times) previous topic - next topic

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Ok so I got my hands on a pretty much complete 96 gt stang for dirt cheap mainly to convert to 5 lug
For the rear I plan to use the rear axles from the stang, 1/8" MM spacers, and the mpv van rotors so I can stay with vented discs in the rear.
And for the front I plan to use everything from the stang, it's a 96 so according to the cool cats write up 96 spindles are directed towards lowered cars which mine will be
But the write up also says I will probably need a bump steer kit, caster/camber plates, and modified alignment settings, so would all this be worth it or should I just find some 94-95 spindles which are more directed towards stock height cars if it even works?

I've even read in some threads around the web that 96+ spindles are not even recommended on fox mustangs so I dont know if that applies to TCs

I also want to know if the sn95 master cylinder vac assist setup will work with a tc with the sn95 setup?
My current teves setup leaks slowly at the lines by the proportional valve under the teves MC so it needs to be replaced regardless
If not which MC would be the one to get that doesn't cost a fortune?
I have the complete 96 sn95 at my disposal so I can use any parts I need from it if they will work
If anybody could give me some insight on what I should do that would be great, thanks
1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #1
Anybody have any input
1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #2
Since it's a TC you can just pick up a pair of fox Mustang 5 lug rotors from a place like CJ Pony parts and not have to worry about  a spindle change. They don't have the ABS ring like TC rotors did but it sounds like you're getting rid of the ABS anyway. That's what I plan to do on my '88. Just my opinion.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #3
The 96+ spindles will push the front wheels out a few more MM than 94-95's. The 96+ also has a straight arm that meets the tie rod end, 94-95's are slightly bent. I think the rear axles are the same length through 94-98. I haven't heard of the MVP rotors, I need to research that myself. The booster and MC from a 94-98 should work fine but make sure you swap the prop valve also.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #4
Quote from: bagodonuts;424015
Since it's a TC you can just pick up a pair of fox Mustang 5 lug rotors from a place like CJ Pony parts and not have to worry about  a spindle change. They don't have the ABS ring like TC rotors did but it sounds like you're getting rid of the ABS anyway. That's what I plan to do on my '88. Just my opinion.


But then you still have 11" brakes. by swapping to sn95 spindles you can easily install 13" Cobra brakes for not much more than the cost of replacing the normal sn95 parts.
Currently Birdless but never Foxless

86 Mustang GT

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #5
I used Mach1 rotors and calipers. Still 13" and little less than "Cobra" labeled pieces.


86' T/C 4.6L DOHC
16' Chebby Cruze 1.4L Turbo
17’ Peterbilt 389 600hp 1850ftlb Trq 18spd

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Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #7
So Im contemplating this to!! Mainly because my car needs new brakes all  the way around and I just discovered we have a set of mustang rims at  work that I like!!! If what Ive gathered from coolcats is correct, swap  the front with the sn95 stuff in my case I would be going for the 94-95  spindle setup. Front being the easiest!! On the rear SN95 axle shafts  and a little trick that will allow vented discs to be retained is 90  mazda MPV rotors with an 1/8 spacer between it and the hub.
http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/4to5lug.html

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #8
Yea eventually I want to swap on some cobra brakes but for now this stock stuff will work
Cobra parts are expensive though, cheapest set of rotors and calipers I've found is around 3-400
Not going to spend that much when I got the whole sn95 for 320 which will convert my car to 5 lug all around
1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #9
If you are pulling all of the brakes off the 96 car then you can utilize the brake booster and MC.  The rear end is the same 8.8 housing as the Fox Mustangs just the axles are 0.75" wider per side to accommodate the ABS exciter rings.  This just happens to make the width pretty damn close to perfect to replace a T-Bird /Cougar rear end.  You can use all the rotors, calipers, and caliper brackets for the swap and can get away with running the 96+ spindles with a bump steer kit.  There are two types of bump steer kits and their use is usually tied to the car being stock height or lowered.  The tapered kits are typically used with stock height cars and mildly lowered cars and the drill through kits are typically used with lowered cars (2"+) which can been seen on Maximum Motorsports website.

Spindle Tech Data:
94-95 spindles will increase the front track width by 0.120" (3.1mm) per side - typically used with factory K-Members
96-04 spindles will increase the front track width by 0.320" (8.1mm) per side - typically used with aftermarket tubular K-Members as they are designed around the 96-04 spindle geometry
94-04 spindles will accept either the V-8 Fox Mustang or SN95 struts (Fox struts from 10" front brake cars will work but will require spacers)
94-04 spindles used with Fox ball joints will require 0.330" of spacers (can usually make this up with hardened washers and some company's sell machined units)


Some of the things you will need to come up with:
3-2 conversion kit to install the 94+ MC
Manual proportioning valve for rear brake bias
Front soft lines from the calipers to the stock hard lines on the car
Brake line and soft line to connect the rear brakes to the hard line on the car

Do realize that the use of the 94+ MC requires the metric threaded fittings off the 94+ car as the Fox cars are SAE threaded 83-86 and I believe the 87-88 cars are as well but not 100% sure.  If the threads on your car are SAE just get an 85 Lincoln Town car MC and that will solve the problem.  This has been discussed on another thread here so do a search.

The 94+ booster will require you to slot the mounting holes on the firewall which is not hard and if the booster is free this is the route I would go.  If I was purchasing a booster I would get a 93 Cobra unit as they pretty much just bolt up and are dimensionally identical as far as I know.

If you use stock SN95 rubber soft lines on the front of the car you will need a Weatherhead adapter to get them to connect to the stock Fox hard lines on the car.  I believe the part number for the fittings is 7828 and are available at most AutoZone, OReilly's, etc or can be ordered online.  If I remember correctly one side needs it and the other does not on the Mustangs but I am not sure about our cars (I used SS conversion specific lines on my cars).  You can order SS braided lines that are direct use and do not require the fittings if you want to go that route.

If you have to replace your ball joints simply install the shorter, low-friction 1994-04 ball joints as they will press into the lower control arms just fine.  This relieves a person of having to come up with the 0.330" spacers for use with the Fox ball joints.

The use of the SN95 spindles will change the geometry on the 83-86 cars as they use the same lower control arm as the Fox Mustangs so CC plates are recommended.  The 87-88 cars use the same lower control arms as the SN95 cars so the geometry change may not be enough to warrant CC plates.

I think that about sums it up but this is a very high level run through.  Use the search function on here and that will turn up several threads where this has been discussed.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #10
That's is the kind of info I was looking for
Thank you very much for the detailed and specific description

So far I'm still pulling the major parts like the rear end and front end assemblies
If I need anything else Il post it up
1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #11
So some searches on here and all of what I wrote has been gone over a few times.  Good luck with the swap as it is well worth it!

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #12
Quote from: Drewstang;424026
Cobra caliper brackets, 99+ GT calipers (dual piston aluminum instead of the iron Cobras,) and 13" Cobra rotors would be the best combo for off the shelf LAPS selection.


Can you confirm that this combo works?
1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #13
I try and not call people out but that combo will get you in trouble. The '99+ front calipers are not designed to work with the Cobra rotors. One guy mocked it up and built some adapters to get them centered over the rotor only to discover it would lock up under hard cornering. This was due to the parts up front not having enough clearance to take into account for the deflection of all the parts.

I ran the '99+ front calipers on the modified front SN95 spindles with the stock SN95 rotors with some Hawk street pads and the brakes were awesome compared to the stock Fox garbage.

If you want to run the Cobra brakes and the $$$ is too much then just install the SN95 V6/GT brakes all the way around. From there upgrading to the Cobra brakes is easy. The cheapest way is to just do it the first time but not everyone can plunk down the $$$ to do it up front.

And to clarify, the Cobra calipers are aluminum and manufactured by PBR. The '98 and down front calipers on the V6/GT cars are single piston cast iron calipers. Please gets the facts correct.

Darren

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #14
I personally installed two sets of the 99+ on 13" rotors using the Cobra caliper brackets. As far as I know, the owners had no problems with them. I didn't think it was possible but that was the combo that was selected by the local Napa. I have seen many of the 99+ calipers and brackets on SN95 GT/V6 rotors work with no problems as well. I've installed 4 sets of those and again, never heard anything bad about them.