Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Swapping => Topic started by: Ramos617 on March 30, 2017, 12:02:44 AM

Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on March 30, 2017, 12:02:44 AM
Been gone for a while but I think I'm ready to get back into my turbo coupe
I have my 89 fox mustang that was wrecked but the whole drivetrain is still in good shape, and since the head on my 2.3 is cracked, I'm thinking about just doing the swap
I've read a couple of the threads here and know it's a pretty big job so I do need a few tips
The teves abs brake system and electronic struts n shocks are removed from the car

The donor car has a tremec 3550 trans with 2nd gear synrcho gone so Im going to tear into it and see if I should invest into it or just get another tranny

From what I've read the best thing to do is get an engine harness from the same year tbird w/5.0 right?
Or can I reuse the 89 mustang harness?

From what car driveshaft will drop right in?

Id also like most of the essential accessories to work like the power steering and AC system. I replaced most of the AC components on the mustang and it was fully functional running r134a so it should all swap right over correct?

I have an evtm for my tbird and I'm pretty good with wiring so hopefully it goes smooth

Any tips would be appreciated
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 30, 2017, 12:41:06 AM
Just use the Stang engine & computer harness... Then cut off the plugs from the 2.3 engine harness and Stang body harness(leave 6" or so of wire) and wire them together color for color... Next connect them to their orig connectors(TC body & Stang engine harness), probably half or more of your wiring will be finished... Oh yeah you'll want to use the Stang fuel pump harness, as the relay for TC is in under hood harness... Motor mounts are a PITA as the ones in Bird are unique to '86-'88 models... It is possible to use the Stang crossmember but I believe it needs shimming at a couple points... I still have orig TC xmember in mine & the T5 D/S should fit with your trans..
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 30, 2017, 02:17:23 PM
If at all possible fix the 3550.  They are hella stout compared to the T-5's and parts are available.  The guy I get my Tremec parts from is Joe Dederichs out of Ft. Worth, TX.  He is a master dealer and knows these transmissions by heart.

http://www.dederichsmotorsports.com/

Also, do a search for "aluminum driveshaft" and with the user name "vinnietbird".  Vinnie pulled one from a certain car in a salvage yard and had is shortened for his car and is works very well.  I know others have done this as well but I remembered the one Vinnie did as that thread got a lot of attention.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on April 01, 2017, 03:06:21 AM
Thanks guys this is gold
So the engine harnesses should correspond color for color?
I'm definitely on the lookout for tbird 5.0 mounts now, your talking about the engine to motor mount pieces right?

And yes I'm definitely hoping the 3550 is salvageable, I know a t5 is a step in the wrong direction and a tko is out if my price range atm.
I know 2nd gear synchro is gone for sure, I used to be able to get it in without grinding for a good while but towards the end of it, it was grinding going into 2nd no matter what. Everything else on it was good no pop outs or anything.

Thanks for the tip on getting parts for it, I know parts are getting hard to find for them

As for the fuel pump wiring, would there be supply or just signal voltage coming from the ecu for the fuel pump.
I replaced the fuel pump and sender harness on top of the tank on the stang and was actually planning to install relays close to rear end of the car since the battery was mounted inside the hatch on top of the tank essentially and that's probably what I plan to do on the bird.

Also I have an aluminum driveshaft for the mustang but I'm guessing not too many lengthen them??
Would it be worth the trouble or should I just run the stock turbo coupe DS.
Thanks for the help, really, I've already started tearing the mustang apart here and there. It's a semi long term project but I'm really stoked to get it done
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Skunk on April 01, 2017, 08:36:38 AM
For the most part it's color for color....... There's a couple of insignificant differences if you don't look closely like the a white/pink for low oil on the mustang and possibly 2-3 white/pink wires on the Bird for low oil, knock sensor and I think overboost buzzer.

If the front end is good on the mustang.....You can always swap over the K member of mounts prove difficult to find. I suppose you could also cut off the perches on the bird and modify accordingly.

Fuel pump is a ground signal.....If your planning on modding it's no big deal. Like mentioned the birds wiring runs all the way from the front to back of the car and requires modifications to work with the mustang conversion.

John
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on April 01, 2017, 10:22:34 AM
Quote from: Skunk;460123
For the most part it's color for color....... There's a couple of insignificant differences if you don't look closely like the a white/pink for low oil on the mustang and possibly 2-3 white/pink wires on the Bird for low oil, knock sensor and I think overboost buzzer.

John

This is true, I neglected to mention there will will be several unused wires as overboost, low oil level, etc won't be used(no doubt low oil could be if you have appropriate oil pan)... Ford wire color has mostly been same since mid '60s, '65/'66 Stang's I've wired have same wire colors for temp and oil pressure circuits as my T-Bird or even my '96 F-150.. Use caution though, sometimes colors were altered OR a wire or two were substituted as apparently manufacturing was out of a certain color... I found a couple cases of this in the '87 5.0 Bird harness that's in mine... I used a Bird harness as that what I had, would have used Stang if that was what was on hand...

There's a thread around here that lists most of the conversion steps, always seems difficult to locate and I no longer have the 'puter it was bookmarked on...
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on June 05, 2017, 06:07:44 AM
Thought I would update this, I bought a good head to get my turbo coupe back on the road and it's running great with the 2.3t that is, it's a semi daily and I happy it's not just sitting
As far as the 5.0 swap, I've already got the 5.0 on the stand ready to go through it, tore down the tranny and found out it'll need a new 1-2 slider assembly and some synchros so I went ahead and ordered up that with carbon synchros which should definitely help make it a smoother shifting tranny
I'm still tracking down some mounts so if anybody has any stock 5.0 engine mounts or even some Chuck motor mounts let me know, definitely interested in them
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on July 31, 2017, 04:30:18 AM
Well looks like I've got most of the swap squared away short of the installation. The tranny is rebuilt and ready to roll, engine is on the stand with some almost new gt40x heads, fresh bearings and gaskets and ready to be installed. I also have all the small odds and ends like the cable style pedal assembly, some chucks motor mounts, all the under the hood harnesses, etc.
So before i really tear into it and take my T-bird off Daily driver duties I figure i get everything fully squared away.
As far as the wiring, I already have mustang wiring harnesses off the car and have it ready to clean up. Would it not be easier to just swap in the whole mustang harness and ecu and work from there as far as the fuel pump circuit goes. It seems like it would require a whole lot more work to splice in the mustang wiring from the firewall forward into the Tbird harness behind it. From the diagrams I've seen there isn't much wiring that stays behind the firewall except for a couple relays and some of the HVAC wires.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 01, 2017, 08:00:38 AM
Quote from: Ramos617;462013

As far as the wiring, I already have mustang wiring harnesses off the car and have it ready to clean up. Would it not be easier to just swap in the whole mustang harness and ecu and work from there as far as the fuel pump circuit goes. It seems like it would require a whole lot more work to splice in the mustang wiring from the firewall forward into the Tbird harness behind it. From the diagrams I've seen there isn't much wiring that stays behind the firewall except for a couple relays and some of the HVAC wires.

Use the method that you're comfortable with but in my opinion it's FAR easier to splice the 5.0 engine harness to the original TC body harness... I used the body harness connector from a 5.0 Bird & 2.3 engine harness to fabricate a interface adapter, for most part everything on mine is plug in... Of course mine still retains the ride control and ABS that both still function...
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Skunk on August 01, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
∆∆∆ Agreed!...... My ABS and Ride Control we're pooched so I had no problem using a mustang engine bay harness and moving pins around to match at the connectors on the drivers side firewall and down in the passenger kick panel. I was even able to retain the overboost circuit. The only thing I haven't done is finish the brake warning circuit. It's all there.... I've just gotten lazy.  I can't remember exactly what I did....it was so long ago but I have the fuel pump and I think the EEC relay under the passenger seat. I believe everything you need is in that kick panel, just grab the relay pig tails from the mustang and make the connections.

John
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 01, 2017, 11:45:58 AM
If I remember correctly doesn't some year 5.0 F-150 fuel rail hook up to the TC lines? If so that would also save you the hassle of having to swap 5.0 fuel lines in from the tank to the engine bay.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: ISTLCRUZ on September 03, 2017, 07:59:57 AM
Any updates?
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on December 09, 2017, 04:29:07 AM
Yes, Sorry about the huge delay in updates but with getting a new job, moving, and dealing with family its hard to find time to work on the bird but I have got quite a bit done in the last couple months here and there. Unfortunately my phone doesn't let me sign in so that a downer.
Anyways, I got the tranny and motor dropped in, makes it much easier with an engine leveler, didn't have to remove the front clip this time, foxbody pedals are installed, I also installed the rear end from my foxbody because I had already done the sn95 cobra brake conversion and it has a better limited slip unit (eaton i believe), it does still have the fox axle flange to flange width but for the time it works great, the 04 cobra wheels are a little sunk in on the rear but i plan to get me some sn95 axles help fix that. That will about bring me back to stock T-bird axle flange to flange width and let me install my cobra anti moan brackets which are much needed at low speeds.
As far as the fuel lines I was able to reuse the fox fuel rails and hardlines which end at the front passenger side of the car, near the bottom of the block and with some creativity I was able to retrofit them to the t-bird hardlines which were rerouted to the under the passenger side motor mount and able to meet with the fox hardlines.
as far as the wiring, with the help of some stock t-bird and foxbody diagrams, I temporarily mended most of the foxbody engine harness, salt shakers and all to the t-bird engine bay wiring. After rearranging some ECU pins, getting the correct relays to switch, and adding some for the extra pins and wires for the injectors I was finally able to get it to fire and idle after much trouble shooting. Just hearing it come alive brought so much relief.
So at this point I still have to finish up some wiring, wrap it up to look nice, fix my driveshaft length issue, install the rest of the engine accessories and exhaust, and I should be all set. The swap is easy, getting it all to work and function like its supposed to is the hard part haha. I can't wait to get her finished up though.
Its a huge job to get it all to work but it'll definitely be worth it once I'm done.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 11, 2017, 11:57:59 AM
Remember that the 94-98 V6 SN95 Mustangs and the 94-98 V8 SN95 Mustangs use the same axles and rear brakes and that the 87-98 8.8 housings are the same.  So on the brakes you will need the Cobra specific bracket that bolts to the flange on axle tube.  This is what the brake caliper bracket bolts to.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on December 14, 2017, 01:59:40 AM
Yes the rear end I put in off my foxbody was already swapped from stock drums to sn95 cobra spec using the Ford racing m2300m kit. At the time it was meant for my foxbody and I wanted to keep the stock fox width so what I did was slot the "welded on axle tube bracket to cobra spec caliper bracket" bracket to let it slide over the tube and let it bolt on the inside of the axle tube bracket to let me use foxbody length 5-lug axles. everything lined up perfect and is/was running great, fox width, except no antimoan brackets installed because of the modification i would have to do to the to accommodate the less space on the axle tube to be installed correctly. All i need is to get some 94-98 stock axles and i should be set, I could flip and swap the brackets from RH side to LH side from the kit, Install my new cobra antimoan brackets from the kit and i should be good to go. I have everything I need to get my stock T-bird flange to flange width once I get my hands on some more sn95 axles.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on December 14, 2017, 02:30:00 AM
I couldn't find the original thread where this is documented but i found one with the exact details and another with the pictures to do this, I've got quite a bit of some miles on this setup and it works great, just thought I would throw this out ther in case anybody would find it helpful.
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?71585-SN95-Cobra-rear-brakes-and-Fox-length-axles
https://www.ranger-forums.com/engine-drivetrain-122/how-rear-disc-brake-conversion-stock-28-spline-ranger-rear-end-95557/

I had sold off my stock TC rear end and installed this rear end to fund some my swap and parts and so far it's worked out pretty good.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Fearnot on January 09, 2018, 10:14:30 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;462020
If I remember correctly doesn't some year 5.0 F-150 fuel rail hook up to the TC lines? If so that would also save you the hassle of having to swap 5.0 fuel lines in from the tank to the engine bay.

Does anyone recall if this is correct?
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on January 10, 2018, 11:58:00 AM
Quote from: Fearnot;464215
Does anyone recall if this is correct?

Maybe but I doubt it, a 5.0 is far wider than 2.3... Likely require serious "adjusting" at least...

I swapped lines from a 5.0 Bird into mine...
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 11, 2018, 12:38:28 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;462020
If I remember correctly doesn't some year 5.0 F-150 fuel rail hook up to the TC lines? If so that would also save you the hassle of having to swap 5.0 fuel lines in from the tank to the engine bay.


Quote from: Fearnot;464215
Does anyone recall if this is correct?


Quote from: TurboCoupe50;464222
Maybe but I doubt it, a 5.0 is far wider than 2.3... Likely require serious "adjusting" at least...

I swapped lines from a 5.0 Bird into mine...


I swear someone on here did it, but it was years ago.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on January 15, 2018, 02:59:03 AM
Ok so I've been slowly getting all the little details worked out and it's getting there. Most of the wiring is all good to go, all I have to do is connect a couple wires to the instrument panel and it should all be done. Ecm and fuel relays along with the baro sensor were mounted in front of the pass side shock tower and it fires up quite nicely. All accessories are in place as well as all the cooling components on the front end. I do still need to square away the exhaust.
Right now I have my bbk longtubes and h pipe on but the mufflers from the fox are a bit too short and need some lengthening. The muffler hangars are also missing so I'll probably need to track some down to support the mufflers. One issue I've ran into is the h pipe drops off a bit too close to the passenger side inside the tunnel. Does the h pipe need to be lengthened as well to get it straight?
Anyone who runs long-tubes, some advice would be appreciated
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Biff Bastion on January 22, 2018, 03:52:52 PM
Hey Ramos, what motor mounts did you end up using? I will be needing a set for my 88 TC with a 351C. Thanks!
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on January 22, 2018, 04:45:55 PM
I ended up finding a used set of Chuck mounts for a 302. He doesn't make them anymore but I was lucky enough to find a set here on the forum.
I'm not too familiar with the Cleveland engines so I'm not sure which mounts would be best for you.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Beau on January 22, 2018, 06:18:13 PM
Graham (88turbo) knows the specific of using a truck 5.0 fuel rail in a 2.3 to 5.0 conversion. Basically the idea is that the truck rail mounts to the existing 2.3 lines on the firewall (or wherever they come up from) rather than dealing with the work of making new ones to come up on the passenger side to match the Stang/Bird 5.0 units


This is what I've read and been told, haven't put it to work myself...


Ramos, I believe you were the feller who got my Chuck's mounts when I sold off my stuff, right? Glad to see it get used :D
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Ramos617 on January 22, 2018, 06:27:52 PM
Yes sir, thank you they worked out perfect. Car is almost road worthy.
Title: Swapping 89 5.0 HO into my turbo coupe
Post by: Beau on January 23, 2018, 01:30:44 AM
Excellent!