Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Drivetrain Tech => Topic started by: Jim_Miller on April 04, 2007, 03:36:00 PM

Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 04, 2007, 03:36:00 PM
I propose we work together to attempt to document rear widths in sticky worthy format for future people wanting to do rear axel swaps. There is a wealth of info here but some know it, some don't and others come in that ask it over and over again.

I have created a simple cad drawing of a basic rear assembly with what I consider relative dimensions and we have people out there that have rears laying around where we could get accurate measurements and list them out in the same format. As an example Vinniebirds info here (http://"http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=13180&page=3")  for Mustang, 85 TC and 88 Bird.

I have a 1984 Mark VII 7.5 Disk Break Rear I can measure out and also a 90 Mustang 8.8 (Mustang rears changed arround 90 something I believe)
I did my dimensions this way as opposed to the bearing to bearing measurement that Vinnie took because I believe the distance from housing flange into the bearing race is uniform from housing to housing and this is easyer to measure.

Also have Axel Measurements for both sides of axels because I know the Ranger and Areostar 8.8 axels are not the same from side to side. Most of ours will be the same.
And I know Chuck seems to have most of this in his head, possibly he can help us out.
heres some Info to get things going, Can anybody add or correct any of this? I will edit this post as new info is offered. 

Car = TBird/Cougar
Year =1983-1985
Ring Gear = 7.5
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 4 Lug
------------------------------
Car = TBird/Cougar
Year =1986-1988
Ring Gear = 7.5
A = 61”
B = 56”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 4 Lug
------------------------------
Car = TurboCoup ONLY
Year =1987-1988
Ring Gear = 8.8
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 4 Lug
------------------------------
Car = Mustang
Year =1979-1993
Ring Gear = 7.5/8.8
A = 59.5”
B = 54”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 4 Lug
------------------------------
Car = Mustang
Year =1994-1998
Ring Gear = 7.5/8.8
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 5 Lug
------------------------------
Car = Mark VII
Year =1984-19??
Ring Gear = 7.5
A = 59.5”
B = 54”
C =
D =
E =
F =
G = 5 Lug
------------------------------
Car = Ranger/Bronco II
Year =1983-1992
Ring Gear = 7.5/8.8
A =
B =
C = 29-5/32"
D =
E =
F =
G = 5 Lug
------------------------------
Car = AreoStar
Year = 1986-1997
Ring Gear = 8.8
A =
B =
C =
D = 29-5/32"
E =
F =
G = 5 Lug
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on April 04, 2007, 03:55:52 PM
Well no one will read it anyway....but ok.
Firstly, Vinnie's bearing surface measurement is to to the outer flange of the housing itself....and that is the proper place to do so.

From bearing surface to bearing surface...
8.8 Mustang rear 54"
7.5 TC rear (1985) 54"
7.5 '88 T-Bird rear 56"

From axle flange to axle flange (wheel mounting surface)
8.8 Stang rear 59.5"
7.5 TC rear 61"
7.5 '88 Bird rear 61"

I guess I'll have to do this...

Car = TBird/Cougar
Year =1983-1985
Ring Gear = 7.5
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D =
E =
F =
G = 4 Lug

Car = TBird/Cougar
Year =1986-1988
Ring Gear = 7.5
A = 61”
B = 56”
C =
D =
E =
F =
G = 4 Lug

Car = TurboCoupe only
Year =1987-1988
Ring Gear = 8.8
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D =
E =
F =
G = 4 Lug

Car = Mustang
Year =1979-1993
Ring Gear = 7.5/8.8
A = 59.5”
B = 54”
C =
D =
E =
F =
G = 4 Lug

Car = Mustang
Year =1994-1998
Ring Gear = 7.5/8.8
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D =
E =
F =
G = 5 Lug

On the Mk 7's they changed from the larger 11.5" disks in the rear to the 87-88TC type.  Not sure what that meant for axles/housings, etc.  The early ones with the larger brakes are going to be 1" wider overall than the Tbird/Cougars and the SN-95 Mustangs.

I have not measured/compared any 99-04 Mustang rear ends to verify if things changed.

There is no need for Dr and Pass side axle lengths...they are the same.....
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 04, 2007, 04:16:20 PM
My 1984 Mark Rear has (had) the 11.5 vented disk so I will be able to supply that info. I'll try to get the measurments tonight.

One side of the Ranger and Areostar axels will swap with some of these housings.. I belive it is the left side axel. (I added that so we could include that info is somebody just wanted 5 lug swap with same axel leangths)

So for the one's above I was figuring listing them as...
Car = TBird/Cougar
Year =1983-1985
Ring Gear = 7.5
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 4 Lug


You definatly know more about this than I Chuck, and your listing is already more accurate. Are you offering to record the info in your post if we can make measurments and supply you with them?
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 04, 2007, 04:25:32 PM
Here is the Ranger/Areostar 5 Lug info. This is to swap (1979 to 1993 based on your list) Fox 4 lug Mustang 8.8 axels to 5 Lug

"If you use the Ranger axles they need to be drivers side, Aerostar are from the passenger side." (http://"http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/086815.html#000004")



The link is my source of the info.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 04, 2007, 04:41:16 PM
More Detailed Info...

"
To keep the stock rear wheel offset and drums, the '83-'92 Ranger/Bronco II Left (driver) side axle (29-5/32") from a 4cyl or 3.0L V-6 with the 7.5" rear end, or '86-'97 Aerostar RIGHT side axles (29-5/32") is what you want. They are the same rear axles, the center section is just on the opposite side when you compare the rear ends. The pumpkins are also off center unlike the Mustangs, so you will have to find two vehicles to pull axles from!
"

And the link (http://"http://www.ffcobra.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/085302.html?")
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 04, 2007, 04:46:59 PM
Updated my chart but double checking where that 29-5/32" for the Ranger and Areostar leangth is measured from.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on April 04, 2007, 05:03:04 PM
Quote from: Jim_Miller;138280
My 1984 Mark Rear has (had) the 11.5 vented disk so I will be able to supply that info. I'll try to get the measurments tonight.

One side of the Ranger and Areostar axels will swap with some of these housings.. I belive it is the left side axel. (I added that so we could include that info is somebody just wanted 5 lug swap with same axel leangths)

So for the one's above I was figuring listing them as...
Car = TBird/Cougar
Year =1983-1985
Ring Gear = 7.5
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 4 Lug


You definatly know more about this than I Chuck, and your listing is already more accurate. Are you offering to record the info in your post if we can make measurments and supply you with them?



I can mod my post I suppose.

One thing on the Ranger axles.....yes they will fit in the shorter housings...but unless the axle from the other side of a Ranger rear is 3/4" longer than the one used for the Mustangs....using 2 of them will narrow the rear track on a Tbird....
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on April 04, 2007, 05:13:10 PM
Tbird axles (ALL..7.5 and 8.8) are 29-7/8"  (or 29.895") from the end of the axle (splined end) to the outer face of the lug flange....

They are 29-1/2" to the inside of the lug flange....

This measurement is the same for the 94-98 SN-95 Mustang 5-lug axles....
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 04, 2007, 05:32:54 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;138293
I can mod my post I suppose.

One thing on the Ranger axles.....yes they will fit in the shorter housings...but unless the axle from the other side of a Ranger rear is 3/4" longer than the one used for the Mustangs....using 2 of them will narrow the rear track on a Tbird....


If I follow what your saying ...

You wouldn’t want to do that, besides it wouldn’t work.
The Diff in the Ranger/Areostar is offset the axels are Unequal lengths and the other axel wouldn’t fit the Mustang housing. (However it might fit another housing.. 88 Bird possibly?)
However using them in the 8.8 Stang housing gives you a 1.5 inch narrower bolt in 5 lug (correct?)
This is then .750 narrower per side

On my Stock 88 Bird I measure 1.5 inch of wasted clearance on the inside between the wheel well and tire on each side. (yes, I’m using the term “wasted” very loosely there.. but I like to live on the edge sometimes)
I’m hoping to utilize that clearance by having rims with a 6” backspace as oppose to the 5” (as best as I can measure with a tire on) backspace of the original 14” rims.

Now if my rims were a 5” backspace (or somebody else’s were) this 1.5 narrower rear 5 lug set up would be perfect.

Just allows a whole other option.

All this is why I would like a record of all the C,D,E and F Dimensions. What COULD we actually mix and match?
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 04, 2007, 05:44:20 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;138295
Tbird axles (ALL..7.5 and 8.8) are 29-7/8"  (or 29.895") from the end of the axle (splined end) to the outer face of the lug flange....

They are 29-1/2" to the inside of the lug flange....

This measurement is the same for the 94-98 SN-95 Mustang 5-lug axles....


Here is where things start to get a bit confusing for me. Thats like the Dim I have for the ranger areostar axels (29-5/32")
Is that Relevant?
Or is end (splined end) to bearing race more important?

On the rear I'm working with for my Bird
the 1984 Mark VII axels Splined end to outer lug flange is at LEAST 2" longer than the 4 lug that came out of the 90 mustang rear.
 
Yet they still fit the housing for the Mustang (there's post on the site here about this someplace)

Not even sure an accurate measurment can be taken for the race area but thats what matters on a axel<-->Housing swap.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on April 04, 2007, 06:31:04 PM
Jim, you're making my head hurt....

Using the 29-5/32" Ranger axles in the shorter housing gives the same overall width as the Fox Mustangs... 59.5" .... in 5-lug.  I have no idea what the length of the other side Ranger axle is....The 29-5/32" dimension is from the splined end to the faqce of the lug flange.....  add .75" to that and you're at approx 29.9"....which is the Tbird/SN-95 axle length.

The Mk7 axles will be .75" + .50" = 1.25" longer than the Fox Mustang axles... Your early Mk7 axle housing is the same width as the Mustang housings...so yes...the longer axles fit in the same housing, even though the resulting overall width is 2.5" wider.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jeremy Belcher on April 04, 2007, 11:23:18 PM
I threw the info into a spreadsheet to make it more manageable.
I might have gotten all the information correct, I might not have...

Spreadsheet (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tKW8TNLJ8Ex-8fpnB8Syw9-fiW4vK7WM/view?usp=drivesdk)

updated 18:30 02/19/2018 Ye olde Griffshp.com is gone
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on April 04, 2007, 11:36:18 PM
Quote from: JeremyB;138359
I threw the info into a spreadsheet to make it more manageble.
I might have gotten all the information correct, I might not have...


Axle Spreadsheet (http://"www.griffshp.com/belchja/forums/axledata.xls")

Looks right to me.  Glad to see the 99-04 stuff in there too.

I know Jim has an 84 Mk7 axle, which will be the same as my 84 SVO rear I have in the '80 XR-7.

There will probably be more than one Mk7 variation.

Thanks for organizing it better.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 05, 2007, 12:57:39 AM
Quote from: Chuck W;138304
Jim, you're making my head hurt....
[/COLOR]
lol Chuck!, my Dad's been telling me that exact same thing for over 40 years!
If it helps at all let me say I really do appreciate your help and humoring me. Of all the people on this site this would be WAY harder without your help. Seems to all be obvious to you, however confusing for me.
 
Jeremy, Wow that looks great Thanks!
 
First the comparison of the two, I think I said 2” difference, I was mistaken a bit.. here they are standing side by side
(http://home.comcast.net/~leanneandjim/Tbird/Axel_1.jpg)
 
1990 Mustang Axel
Overall 29-1/4
Tip <-->beginning of machined surface (race) 26-1/4
Tip <-->ending of machined surface (seal) 27-3/4
(http://home.comcast.net/~leanneandjim/Tbird/Axel_3.jpg)
 
1984 Mark VII Axel
Overall 30-1/2
Tip <-->beginning of machined surface (race) 26-1/4
Tip <-->ending of machined surface (seal) 27-3/4
(http://home.comcast.net/~leanneandjim/Tbird/Axel_2.jpg)
 
Differance is more like 1-1/4
 
Also
The bearing Begins .750 into the end of the housing
The Backing plate Flange is 1” in from the actual end of the housing (outer edge of the seal)
The bearing is .625 wide
 
I will draw this bering area up tomorrow at work to better illustrate it, right now it’s late and I need to get sleep.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 05, 2007, 01:07:06 AM
Compairing to Jeremy's info from a ford document (pretty reliable source!)
It's saying the mustang axels I measured at Overall 29-1/4 (29.250) are actualy 29.180
I would be measuring .070 longer i think the Keeper grouve and end are much larger than .070 so I'm going to assume my measurment with the tape measure if OFF
 
you can bet my Mark VII measurment is off about the same.
 
I have a 0-18" calaper at work but nothing to measure 30" any more accurate than what I have.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on April 05, 2007, 07:30:08 AM
Quote from: Jim_Miller;138371

 
Differance is more like 1-1/4
 


That's what I said above..... ;)
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jim_Miller on April 05, 2007, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;138399
That's what I said above..... ;)

You sure did.
Have never once doubted anything you have said.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jeremy Belcher on April 05, 2007, 08:35:34 PM
Excellent information Jim. I've added it to the spreadsheet.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: SRBird on April 19, 2007, 12:53:07 AM
I've succeeded at installing an 88 XR7 8.8 inch drum rear end onto my 87 TBird Sport. New quad shocks and diff bushings certainly tightened things up too. Before the install, I measured A = 61 and B = 55.596 as an addition to your spreadsheet. Good spreadsheet. It would be nice to have more of these inter-fox comparison charts developed for our TBird/Cougar modifying obsession (err... I mean hobby).
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Warbird9 on April 19, 2007, 01:36:59 AM
Dunno if this pertains to any info being gathered here, but...I was reading the June '07 Car Craft, and they have an article about 8.8" rears. I noticed they mention that starting in '94 mustangs they had 31 spline axles and carrier. I thought the 31 spline axles were in trucks only? Hmm, could Car Craft have made a boo-boo?
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jeremy Belcher on September 23, 2007, 11:02:21 PM
I updated the spreadsheet to account for the bearing race measurements.

Also, here is a picture of an axle from my '87 7.5" (Taken a few years ago)

(http://griffshp.com/belchja/forums/dbnab%20003_c_r.jpg)

The race goes almost directly to the flange fillet.

This would lead one to believe the 83-85.5 and 85.5-88 7.5" axles have different bearing race placement and might not be interchangeable. Can anyone confirm/deny this? If all goes as planned, I'll be comparing my '87 axles with '94-'98 and '99-'04 units.

Preliminary measurement of the '94-'98 axles shows the race going from 25.75" to 27" from the splines.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: HAVI on October 13, 2007, 08:27:13 PM
Let's talk housings for a minute, please.  So far I see 2 different lengths, 54" and 56".  May I ask about where the 10" drum rear fits into this (I have one from an 88 XR7), and how about the Lincoln's housing lengths?  Oh, and did anyone confirm the bearing races?
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: redneckcowboy on October 16, 2007, 06:47:31 PM
Quote from: Jim_Miller;138271

------------------------------
Car = TBird/Cougar
Year =1986-1988
Ring Gear = 7.5
A = 61”
B = 56”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 4 Lug
------------------------------
Car = TurboCoup ONLY
Year =1987-1988
Ring Gear = 8.8
A = 61”
B = 54”
C =
D = Same as C
E =
F = Same as E
G = 4 Lug
------------------------------


ok i just double checking these cuz i found this on randy's ring and pinion

Ford 8.8  Years Used on Cougar: (1988 - 1996)
10 bolt rear cover with 8.8" ring gear. Rear applications have c/clip axles in both 28 and 31 spline. Front applications are in late model IFS Ford's and will have 28 spline axles using CV joints.

Ford 7.5  Years Used on Cougar: (1980 - 1987)
10 bolt rear cover with 7.5" ring gear. Has c/clip axles with 28 splines.

i am just wanting to double check cuz i know that i have a 4 lug open diff i havent check into more but also know the biggest bang for buck will be gears and traction help thanks for the info though
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jeremy Belcher on October 16, 2007, 07:55:01 PM
FTBCF >> Randy's Ring & Pinion
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: redneckcowboy on October 17, 2007, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: JeremyB;182860
FTBCF >> Randy's Ring & Pinion


k reckon i not understand that one lil help plz
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jeremy Belcher on October 17, 2007, 11:57:42 AM
FoxTbirdCougarForums is much greater than Randy's Ring & Pinion

Which is to say Randy's is wrong.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: james cassity on October 27, 2007, 01:47:46 AM
thumbs up on this thread:bowdown:
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: HAVI on March 16, 2008, 10:33:24 PM
I read this thread again, and I guess SRBird answered my question.  The 8.8 88 XR7 is 55.596".  It's safe to assume the '83-'92 Ranger axle will only fit the 54" housing.  The 1993-97 Ranger/mazda axle shaft is exactly 1" longer than the earlier years axle., and is 28 spline.  The explorer is 1/4" longer than that and is 31 spline, and has a diameter of 1.32" (and uses full size Bronco and F150 bearings) So the explorer is out of the question.  But, I'd be curious to know the diameter of the 93-97 Ranger shaft, bearing, and bearing race surface(will it allow full engagement into a XR7 housing?).  Knowing the dimensions, I can maybe come up with something that requires little machining.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: HAVI on March 21, 2008, 02:44:40 PM
Still trying to get concrete info on the '93 and newer Rangers 8.8 and 7.5 shaft diameters and bearing races.  I'm trying to use an 88 XR7 rear with 5 lug and 10" drum without changin the rest of the braking system(cost savings), and I'm waiting for the snow to melt so I can get to the rear end I have.  Also, I thought it would be nice to get the info for the 86-88 Tbirds/Cougars with the wider housing and 9" drums.  I'm also wondering about any more info on post #21.  A sticky is a sticky, but wouldn't it be better with all of the options included?
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: bhazard on March 21, 2008, 05:18:16 PM
V6 mn12's used a 7.5...
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: gumby on March 21, 2008, 06:48:25 PM
Quote from: bhazard;210228
V6 mn12's used a 7.5...

...with an IRS.  :confused:
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jeremy Belcher on May 19, 2008, 07:37:00 PM
Updated...see post #12
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: HAVI on May 19, 2008, 10:01:40 PM
I got the 10" drum axle from out back and will begin disassembly in the next week or so.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: mcb82gt on November 10, 2009, 10:09:16 AM
Quote from: HAVI;210215
Still trying to get concrete info on the '93 and newer Rangers 8.8 and 7.5 shaft diameters and bearing races.  I'm trying to use an 88 XR7 rear with 5 lug and 10" drum without changin the rest of the braking system(cost savings), and I'm waiting for the snow to melt so I can get to the rear end I have.  Also, I thought it would be nice to get the info for the 86-88 Tbirds/Cougars with the wider housing and 9" drums.  I'm also wondering about any more info on post #21.  A sticky is a sticky, but wouldn't it be better with all of the options included?


Any update on this, Im curious.:beatyoass:
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: HAVI on November 10, 2009, 05:55:29 PM
I ended up putting the 8.8 under my Tbird to roll it around the yard.  From info I gathered, the Rangers came with 9x1.75" drums, and 10x2.5" drums.  Axle width was 29.16" on '92 and earlier, and 30.16" on '93-97.  But overall width at 1.5" wider than '92 and earlier.  So .5" is lost in translation somewhere.  I've been looking in the local junkyard off and on for a '90-92 10" drum rear end, but no luck.  Since this Spring, money has been non-existent for buying anything experiment-related for the rear, or anything else for the car for that matter.  (except the K-member I recently got)

Eventually I'll get back on it.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Clintd on April 21, 2010, 10:46:31 PM
Quote from: bhazard;210228
V6 mn12's used a 7.5...

Only if it dosent have ABS. The 89-93 mn12's got a 8.8 track loc IRS if it was equiped with ABS. The 94-97 that had traction control came with a 8.8 open IRS rear. The IRS cariers will work in a solid axle but a carier from a solid axle will not work in a IRS.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Cad-T-Bird 500 on April 22, 2010, 12:29:18 AM
I don't know if this fits here but Fox Mustang axles will fit in the 87-88 Turbo Coupe housing no problem.  This will make the rear the same width as the Mustang (flange to flange).  The disc brake mounting brackets can then be moved back to use the stock calipers and rotors no problem.  All you have to do is move the flange from the outside of the flange to the inside by cutting a chuck out so it will slide over the tube.  There also a back brace on the back side that I just cut and left off.  May have to use a washer as a spacer to get it exactly right.  This is what I did to upgrade to 31 spline axles and then I use a F150 posi to make the 31 axles work.

TED
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Haystack on June 14, 2010, 02:18:58 AM
I decided to add alittle bit to this. I will get more exact measurement this next weekend when I pull the rear end apart to get the axle lengths.

1984 or 85 turbo diesel rear end from a mark 7

A=61
B=56 about. This measurement I am not sure of, I didn't have any help to mesure it, and still have not taken it apart. This next weekend I want to pull the axles out and measure them.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: 347Thunder on June 25, 2010, 04:46:00 PM
Just took apart my 88' cougar 8.8 rear and the axles are the same length as the birds
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on June 25, 2010, 06:21:41 PM
Quote from: 347Thunder;326454
Just took apart my 88' cougar 8.8 rear and the axles are the same length as the birds


Measure the width of the housing if you would.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: HAVI on June 25, 2010, 06:34:52 PM
I measured mine, and it's wider than 54".  So I assume it's the 56" variety. ('88 XR7 8.8 10" drums)
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: 347Thunder on June 26, 2010, 12:02:19 AM
ok, the housing was 55-5/8  also 55.625.This it the measurement from where the brake backing plate touches, not the end of the tube, end of the tube is 57-3/4 or 57.750. hope this helps
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Eliminator on July 31, 2010, 09:20:14 AM
you found a BMW turbo diesel Mark????! Cool. Sorry, I get excited over dumb things
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 13, 2010, 11:13:10 AM
Does anyone know how wide a Mark VII 8.8 housing is? Is it 54" or 56"? I'm going to guess it's 54" instead of 56". 56" would make swapping T-bird/Cougar drums and axles a piece of cake......
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: edgar_g1 on August 01, 2011, 10:12:49 PM
old thread, but I keep coming back to it.  Is there a way to make a permanent link?
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on August 01, 2011, 10:25:36 PM
Quote from: edgar_g1;364485
old thread, but I keep coming back to it.  Is there a way to make a permanent link?

It's already a sticky.  Not much searching to do...
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 27, 2014, 08:25:18 PM
Just wondering but does anyone have all the measurements for the axles from an 86-88 Thunderbird/Cougar with the 7.7"/8.8" rear and drum brakes? I'm going to order a set of 4-lug, 31 spline, C-clip axles from Strange over the winter (they are local to me and the local speed shop can get me a discount) and I need all the measurements for this form: http://www.strangeengineering.net/website/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Axle-Order-Form.pdf

The only way I can get the measurements is to take an axle out of my Thunderbird, which I don't want to do. The Axles are the same between the 7.5" and 8.8" with drum brakes. I've got an 8.8" rear from an 88 XR7 I'm going to be building for my car over the winter.

Another thought was that the 94-04 Mustang axels are the same length as the 86-88 Thunderbird/Cougar drum brake axles. I could just order a set of those with the fox 4 lug bolt pattern. Has anyone actually confirmed that those axles are the same length as the 86-88 Thunderbird/Cougar axles?
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on August 27, 2014, 09:40:38 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;437486
Just wondering but does anyone have all the measurements for the axles from an 86-88 Thunderbird/Cougar with the 7.7"/8.8" rear and drum brakes? I'm going to order a set of 4-lug, 31 spline, C-clip axles from Strange over the winter (they are local to me and the local speed shop can get me a discount) and I need all the measurements for this form: http://www.strangeengineering.net/website/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Axle-Order-Form.pdf

The only way I can get the measurements is to take an axle out of my Thunderbird, which I don't want to do. The Axles are the same between the 7.5" and 8.8" with drum brakes. I've got an 8.8" rear from an 88 XR7 I'm going to be building for my car over the winter.

Another thought was that the 94-04 Mustang axels are the same length as the 86-88 Thunderbird/Cougar drum brake axles. I could just order a set of those with the fox 4 lug bolt pattern. Has anyone actually confirmed that those axles are the same length as the 86-88 Thunderbird/Cougar axles?

Did you look at the spreadsheet in post #12 of this thread? There are dimensions listed for the 86-88TBird axles.

The 94-98 axles are the same length as ALL of the 83-88 Tbird axles, but the 86-88 TBird housings (non-Disc) are wider. The bearing surface locations are not the same.
99-04 axles are longer and the housing wider.

The info you're looking for is in that spreadsheet. (Well, except for the "H" on the form, which is the bearing surface OD...which is the same across all the Fox axles.)
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 28, 2014, 12:53:33 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;437490
Did you look at the spreadsheet in post #12 of this thread? There are dimensions listed for the 86-88TBird axles.

The 94-98 axles are the same length as ALL of the 83-88 Tbird axles, but the 86-88 TBird housings (non-Disc) are wider. The bearing surface locations are not the same.
99-04 axles are longer and the housing wider.

The info you're looking for is in that spreadsheet. (Well, except for the "H" on the form, which is the bearing surface OD...which is the same across all the Fox axles.)

I did look at the spreadsheet. Of course I found it after I posted. The "D" and "E" measurements between the 94-98 axles and the 86-88 axles appear to be slightly different. Enough so that I'll use the 86-88 measurements when ordering instead of ordering 94-98 axles with a 4 lug pattern. Then again all the axles are the same length. I'm guessing bearing surface differences might come into play?
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on August 28, 2014, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;437503
I did look at the spreadsheet. Of course I found it after I posted. The "D" and "E" measurements between the 94-98 axles and the 86-88 axles appear to be slightly different. Enough so that I'll use the 86-88 measurements when ordering instead of ordering 94-98 axles with a 4 lug pattern. Then again all the axles are the same length. I'm guessing bearing surface differences might come into play?

Yeah, the bearing surfaces are different, due to the wider housings on the 86-88 (non-disc) cars vs, the 94-98.  The 87-88TC housing/axles are the same widths/lengths as the 94-98 stuff.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 28, 2014, 03:34:27 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;437506
Yeah, the bearing surfaces are different, due to the wider housings on the 86-88 (non-disc) cars vs, the 94-98.  The 87-88TC housing/axles are the same widths/lengths as the 94-98 stuff.

Cool. I'll just order the axles with the 86-88 drum axle measurements.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 10, 2015, 09:52:41 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;138304
Jim, you're making my head hurt....

Using the 29-5/32" Ranger axles in the shorter housing gives the same overall width as the Fox Mustangs... 59.5" .... in 5-lug.  I have no idea what the length of the other side Ranger axle is....The 29-5/32" dimension is from the splined end to the faqce of the lug flange.....  add .75" to that and you're at approx 29.9"....which is the Tbird/SN-95 axle length.

The Mk7 axles will be .75" + .50" = 1.25" longer than the Fox Mustang axles... Your early Mk7 axle housing is the same width as the Mustang housings...so yes...the longer axles fit in the same housing, even though the resulting overall width is 2.5" wider.


So since 86 to 88 Thunderbird / Cougar axles are 29.9" would the axles for a 93 Mustang Cobra be a direct swap or are the bearing races in the wrong location?

28 Spline: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-a882842/overview/year/1993/make/ford/model/mustang

31 Spline: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-a883142/overview/year/1993/make/ford/model/mustang
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on October 10, 2015, 10:44:36 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;451717
So since 86 to 88 Thunderbird / Cougar axles are 29.9" would the axles for a 93 Mustang Cobra be a direct swap or are the bearing races in the wrong location?

28 Spline: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-a882842/overview/year/1993/make/ford/model/mustang

31 Spline: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-a883142/overview/year/1993/make/ford/model/mustang

The 93 Cobra would be the same as the 87-88TC set up.

The 86-88 7.5 axles would have bearing surfaces from 26.63- 28.38"

You might run into issues with the Cobra axles, depending on the outer dimension, seeing as those don't have to account for the wider housing. They may not go into the housing far enough.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Beau on October 11, 2015, 02:38:40 AM
For god's sake, can one of you mods edit the title?

Axels....makes my eyes hurt. :D
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 11, 2015, 12:15:39 PM
Quote from: Chuck W;451718
The 93 Cobra would be the same as the 87-88TC set up.

The 86-88 7.5 axles would have bearing surfaces from 26.63- 28.38"

You might run into issues with the Cobra axles, depending on the outer dimension, seeing as those don't have to account for the wider housing. They may not go into the housing far enough.

I did some poking on the Corral. 93 Cobra axles are the same length as Turbo Coupe axles and work in the Turbo Coupe axle housing. Since Turbo Coupe axles are the same as Thunderbird/Cougar 7.5 axles Cobra axles should be a direct swap.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 11, 2015, 01:21:48 PM
Ta da: http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/640541-rearend-turbo-coupe-cobra.html

93 Cobra axles the same as Turbo Coupe axles therefor the same as 7.5 Thunderbird/Cougar drum axles.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 12, 2015, 02:49:43 PM
Well I ordered a set of 31 spline 93 Cobra axles from Moser. I talked to the guy there before ordering and he said they should be a direct swap for the Turbo Coupe/Thunderbird/Cougar 7.5 axles. They should arrive Wednesday. I'll measure them and post the results.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 21, 2015, 10:21:19 AM
The Moser 31 Spline axle shafts for a 93 Cobra fit an 88 XR7 8.8 rear like a glove. That means they will also work in Thunderbird / Cougar 7.5 drum brake rear perfectly as well. The bearing area is from 25.125 to 28.3 inches from the splines.

Those of you looking for a set of drop in axle shafts for a Thunderbird / Cougar 7.5 rear, an 88 Cougar XR7 8.8 rear, or an 87 to 88 Turbo Coupe 8.8 rear have three options:

Yukon Gear and axle part number YAF750006 (28 spline)

Moser Engineering part number A882842 (28 spline)

Moser Engineering part number A883142 (31 spline) (only works with 8.8 rear carriers)
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: philly on March 14, 2016, 04:31:18 PM
Hello all, Im starting from scratch with an 84 cougar and want to install a nine inch, by all the numbers ive been digesting here and in a couple other threads, it looks like i can buy a bolt in setup for an SN95 mustang with brakes and all and i can maintain the same track width and backspacing, correct?

also has anyone tried just bringing an entire 8.8 from wheel to wheel out of an SN95 to one of these cars? were there any mounting difficulties (i assume atleast the brake lines had to be modified or changed somehow.) but as far as mounting, is it a straight bolt up deal? any insight would be much appreciated.

one last thing, although slightly off topic, i saw alan mackin had squeezed some substantial tire in the back of his red turbocoupe on centerline wheels and was wondering if the cougar (with the proposed differential change) has the same space back there? seems he got away with a fender lip roll and some clearancing in the wheel well but nothing very trick or custom.

again thanks everyone for your insight this forum has been really helpful as ive been trolling it for weeks trying to figure out how to do this car up right the first time.

cheers
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Beau on March 15, 2016, 12:09:33 AM
Quote from: philly;454283
Hello all, Im starting from scratch with an 84 cougar and want to install a nine inch, by all the numbers ive been digesting here and in a couple other threads, it looks like i can buy a bolt in setup for an SN95 mustang with brakes and all and i can maintain the same track width and backspacing, correct?


Yes, the complete rear from any V8 Mustang '94 to '98 will work. You'll want to avoid the '99-'04 rears as the axles are longer, though the rear housing itself is identical. Alternatively, you could use a rear from a '99 up and simply throw in ANY axles from a '94 to 98 Mustang, regardless of it being a 7.5" or an 8.8 rear...the axle shafts themselves are dimensionally identical save for the extra inch or so on the '99 up models.

Quote from: philly;454283
also has anyone tried just bringing an entire 8.8 from wheel to wheel out of an SN95 to one of these cars? were there any mounting difficulties (i assume atleast the brake lines had to be modified or changed somehow.) but as far as mounting, is it a straight bolt up deal? any insight would be much appreciated.


Yes, it's a straightforward swap, though you'll need to modify your rear brake fitting and line to mate with the disc brake lines from the new rear. If you've got a 3,8 car, it's a bit more involved. You'll need some new line and bender, likely.

Quote from: philly;454283
one last thing, although slightly off topic, i saw alan mackin had squeezed some substantial tire in the back of his red turbocoupe on centerline wheels and was wondering if the cougar (with the proposed differential change) has the same space back there? seems he got away with a fender lip roll and some clearancing in the wheel well but nothing very trick or custom.


I think he also runs custom wheels on that car, or I may be thinking of another fella. I'll leave this one to the folks who have stuffed big rubber in the wells out back....

Quote from: philly;454283
again thanks everyone for your insight this forum has been really helpful as ive been trolling it for weeks trying to figure out how to do this car up right the first time.
cheers

 Nothing wrong with getting it right on the first time...unless it's my car, in which case between my inability to meet deadlines and make hard fast decisions about what I want... :hick:
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on March 15, 2016, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;454287
Yes, the complete rear from any V8 Mustang '94 to '98 will work. You'll want to avoid the '99-'04 rears as the axles are longer, though the rear housing itself is identical. Alternatively, you could use a rear from a '99 up and simply throw in ANY axles from a '94 to 98 Mustang, regardless of it being a 7.5" or an 8.8 rear...the axle shafts themselves are dimensionally identical save for the extra inch or so on the '99 up models.

 

Actually the 99-04 housing are wider.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: philly on March 15, 2016, 10:58:20 AM
^ thanks for the speedy response, and yea mr mackin had his centerlines widened in the backspacing, i was just concerned if he needed any special work to put a 325 tire out back in the body... a fox mustang nearly requires a tub to fit all that meat back there. as for the brakes, im gonna do some lightweight aerospace brakes eventually and im pretty talented so im not too intimidated by custom brake lines. thanks for the info, looks like this is gonna be a fun project.
Title: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Haystack on March 15, 2016, 11:41:26 PM
I had 275/60's on my 87 bird with very little rub on a maxed out bump. I thing a smaller then 28" tire would fit fine, and i don't think a 275/50 would rub at all. With a bit it work in sure 325's could fit, but i think that is pushing it a bit.
Title: Re: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 17, 2019, 03:45:10 PM
I think the spread sheet got lost? I though there was a download in the first post at one time but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jeremy Belcher on July 18, 2019, 09:05:36 PM
Post  #11
Title: Re: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 18, 2019, 10:57:22 PM
Post  #11

Thanks.
Title: Re: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 18, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
Being that that the 94-98 Mustang 8.8 and 87-88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe axle housings are the same dimensionally would it be possible to swap Turbo Coupe/93 Mustang Cobra axles (they are both the same dimensionally) along with Turbo Coupe/93 Mustang Cobra caliper brackets, calipers, and rotors to get a 4 lug 8.8 disc brake rear? That is probably much easier to do now than finding a complete Turbo Coupe rear axle at a wrecking yard.
Title: Re: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Tbird232ci on July 20, 2019, 04:32:27 AM
You absolutely can.

The biggest issue at this point, is tracking down all of the brake components for a TC. The calipers and brackets are getting harder and harder to come by, and they're still unreliable as hell. The rotors are becoming less common also.

I don't know what your budget looks like or anything, but I think it would be kinda neat to take SN95 rotors, get some hubcentric rings made to make up the difference in center hub diameter of the rotors, and have them redrilled to 4-lug. Would allow you to use common SN95 brakes and still have 4 lug.

Title: Re: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 20, 2019, 10:42:14 AM
You absolutely can.

The biggest issue at this point, is tracking down all of the brake components for a TC. The calipers and brackets are getting harder and harder to come by, and they're still unreliable as hell. The rotors are becoming less common also.

I don't know what your budget looks like or anything, but I think it would be kinda neat to take SN95 rotors, get some hubcentric rings made to make up the difference in center hub diameter of the rotors, and have them redrilled to 4-lug. Would allow you to use common SN95 brakes and still have 4 lug.



I figured it might work, if one could find the parts. I'm all set as my car has an 8.8 out of an 88 XR7. I was asking for a guy local to me. He's got an 86 5.0 Thunderbird with a Trick Flow top end kit and a modified AOD. He's got 3.73s in the stock 7.5 but wants an 8.8, as the 7.5 probably isn't long for the world (I nuked the 7.5 in mine once I went Edelbrock heads/intake). TC rears are virtually impossible to find in Northern Illinois now. I figured finding a 94-98 Mustang GT 8.8 and bolting the other parts to it would be the easier route.
Title: Re: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Jack Hidley on August 11, 2019, 03:44:23 PM
Who is responsible for editing the spreadsheet in post #11? It has some errors and missing information.

Axle should only be measured from the brake mounting flange to the very tip of the inner end. This is the dimension that affects the trackwidth of the car. It is the dimension that Ford uses in all of its drawings. The graphic shows the dimension to go from the brake mounting flange to the end of the splines. It should show this going to the end of the axle. The name should be changed from "Spline-Flange" for C and F to "End-Flange".

The correct dimension for the 1979-93 Mustang axles is 29.16", not 29.18".

The correct dimension for the 1994-98 Mustang axles is 29.91", not 29.97".

The correct dimension for the 1999-2004 Mustang axles is 30.63", not 30.69".

Once these dimensions are fixed, the dimension A will need to be fixed with the formula below. There should be significant figures added in some of the cases.

It should be noted in the document that the 1999-2004 Mustang axle housings have 14mm bolt holes for the RLCAs, instead of 12mm. This means that a custom RLCA would need to be used with 12mm crush sleeves at the chassis end and 14mm crush sleeves at the axle end for use of this housing in any Fox chassis or 1994-98 SN95 chassis.

I would also add a note that the total axle axle flange to axle flange dimension for any assembly is dimension C+F+0.75" for all assemblies listed. If the car has a 31 spline differential or any Torsen differential, add 0.125" to this dimension as the pin/block is 0.875" wide in these differentials. This measurement must be taken with both axles pushed into the housing. This enables one to accurately determine what length axle is installed in the housing as well as if the differential is 28 or 31 spline when using stock parts, without taking anything apart. This won't work well with many aftermarket axles, because their length tolerance is usually poor.

Most rear disc rotors have a 0.235" thick hat. Drums have a thickness of 0.060". If you measure with the brakes installed, 2X of these dimensions need to be subtracted from the measurement.
 


 

  
Title: Re: Deciphering Fox Axels
Post by: Chuck W on August 11, 2019, 08:50:08 PM
Thanks for the info, Jack.

@Jeremy Belcher is the owner of the file. He should be able to make the changes.