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Topic: How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others. (Read 3638 times) previous topic - next topic

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #15 –
I have:
All the hard copy TBird/Cougar EVTMs for 83 thru 88.
Hard copy 84 Shop manuals.
On CD, Shop Manuals including EVTMs for all 93 & 94 Ford Mercury and Lincoln cars.
On CD, Shop Manuals including EVTMs for 2001 Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis.

You will find lots of anomalies when digging into these EVTMs. C499 is not shown in the components locations list on page 60.
Pin 30 is not shown on the 5.0L EEC for 84 & 85, shows up on 86 not hooked to anything, disappears again on the 87 and shows up on 88 hooked to the start circuit.

On the 86 5.0L Start/Ignition, I don't see any reference to a manual transmission. I only have that on the 2.3L Turbo page.

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #16 –
Quote from: thunderjet302;467538
I may be oversimplifying the hell out of this but since it does not appear any of the wiring for PIN 30 runs through the O2 harness on our cars that you can clip the wire on PIN 30 and just add the same wiring that is in a Mustang for the clutch/transmission switch.

But I could be wrong. I'm not an electrical expert.

That is my whole point with this thread yes.  I am trying to figure out a solution for all three years of 5.0 sefi cars and find as close to stock a solution.  Like the 86 EVTM showing a jumper for the start wire that is potentially able to plug right in to a clutch pedal which from what I gather is how a t5 swap goes on a turbo car.  I have verified that jumper is not in my 88 dash harness.
One 88

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #17 –
Quote from: softtouch;467539
I have:
All the hard copy TBird/Cougar EVTMs for 83 thru 88.
Hard copy 84 Shop manuals.
On CD, Shop Manuals including EVTMs for all 93 & 94 Ford Mercury and Lincoln cars.
On CD, Shop Manuals including EVTMs for 2001 Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis.

You will find lots of anomalies when digging into these EVTMs. C499 is not shown in the components locations list on page 60.
Pin 30 is not shown on the 5.0L EEC for 84 & 85, shows up on 86 not hooked to anything, disappears again on the 87 and shows up on 88 hooked to the start circuit.

On the 86 5.0L Start/Ignition, I don't see any reference to a manual transmission. I only have that on the 2.3L Turbo page.


Thank you for your help with this thread.

Here is the page I was looking at in the 86 EVTM that shows the transmission reference.  I wonder if this is just a huge mistake or if the dash harness was partially the same as the TC minus the cluster plug of course.  Also an arrow pointing to the jumper I wonder is under the 86 5.0 dash?

X
One 88

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #18 –
Well I do see a reference to a manual  trans after you pointed it out for the second time.
I'm pretty sure there is no manual trans jumper.
It started in the 85 where they had two NSS switches side by side( with no manual reference), which didn't make any sense either.
They cleaned it up in the 87 EVTM.

As for C288 jumper, looks like the anti theft feature went away by 88. It still shows as a feature in the 87 EVTM.
Maybe the jumper is still there, just not shown on the diagram. Pic on page 175-1 in 88 EVTM.

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #19 –
I wonder how much of the EVTM was just copy and paste.?  Like the 88 EVTM having info on the C3 transmission.
One 88

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #20 –
The 87 EVTM still shows a pic of the 5.0L CFI engine.

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #21 –
Clutch switch pics from a Fox pedal set

Pedal side
X
X
gumby - beauty may fade, but stupid is forever!

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #22 –
Quadrant side

X
X
gumby - beauty may fade, but stupid is forever!

How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #23 –
Thank you Gumby.  Now for the change of direction of this thread as I believe we have confirmed what has been discussed.

1. An A9L can easily be killed when installed in an 88 Thunderbird/Cougar and probably a Mark VII. It is safe to install one in an 86 and 87 as there is no pin 30 connection (I would like to verify this with a car and a multimeter vs just the EVTM).

2. Do not use a Mustang O2 sensor harness, it looks like that was fords easy button for selecting either the starter circuit or sigrtn for pin 30 in what is probably the simplest easy to change harness during assembly.  This was probably cheaper than designing two different engine harnesses for the Mustang. 

Now whats next, finding the cleanest solution to completely integrate all three switches on the clutch pedals into our cars. This will provide a clutch safety switch for both the start circuit for safety during starting using the red/blue wire and the clutch switch for the pin 30 circuit using the brown/white wire and connecting the second switch for the cruise control kill however this one is the least important at the moment.

Observations so far.

1. There is no jumper under the dash for the Clutch switches like there is in a TC, Mustang, Ranger or any other ford car that had both.

2. The red/blue and brown/white wire that we need to interface to are only a couple inches away from the clutch switches, the brown/white needing cut from the starter switch. 

3. One unfortunate thing is the lack of transmission nss wires at the dash harness plug connecting to the transmission tunnel harness.  For myself I don't care because my sn95 transmission does not have this switch.  I still don't know if the TC harness has the wires at this plug and if its tunnel harness has provisions for the transmission switch.  In the mustang world you can easily replace your tunnel harness with one that has the wires and the dash harness has the wires already in it.  That harness doesn't have the same dash plug as our cars and is to long as it connects in the driver kick panel. 

4.  Running the light green wire off the cruise control module through the other switch looks like all thats required.

Now to procure some plugs and a clutch switch.
One 88
 

Re: How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #24 –
Any updates,,,

I hand converted an 87 cfi wiring *all things considerd* to an 87 SEFI harness.

i then upgraded to MAF  and i have installed an A9L on an AOD computer.

I am stroked and poked and injectored too large for the stock A9L to compensate for play nice with so i am running tweecer which needs its first tune.

I do want to contribute though because i think this whole pin 30 thing is important.

Re: How to kill, repair and not kill again an A9L in an 88 and possibly others.

Reply #25 –
Quote from: CougarSE – on


1. An A9L can easily be killed when installed in an 88 Thunderbird/Cougar and probably a Mark VII. It is safe to install one in an 86 and 87 as there is no pin 30 connection (I would like to verify this with a car and a multimeter vs just the EVTM).



Kind of a confusing post with no wiring diagram pictures to look at, but, I can tell you I have an 88 Thunderbird automatic with a MAF conversion using an A9L and it runs much much better than when I had it running an HO Speed Density computer..... Even before I added the nitrous and turbo.