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Topic: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. (Read 8104 times) previous topic - next topic

Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #15
Why change the arms in the first Place?
84 COUGAR/90 HO, 1.7RRs, performer RPM,700DP, equal length shorties, stainless EXH ,T-5,Hurst pro-billet, KC clutch, 8.8/ 4.10s, line-lok, bla ,bla, bla.
71 COMET/289,351w heads, 12.5 TRWs, 750DP, Liberty TL, 9"/6.00s, 11.9x @112 , bla,bla,bla.

Never shoot your mouth off, unless your brain is loaded! ....I may get older, but I'll never grow up!....If you're not laughing, you're not living!  :laughing:

Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #16
I didn't change the A-Arms.  They are stock 1984 TC arms.  I did change springs to SN95 springs.  Struts and Strut Mounts are  Autozone replacements for 1984.  Today I am swapping out the struts for 88 Mustang struts and will be installing MM Caster Camber plates for Fox Birds.
84 TurboCoupe with 302 .010 over - 9.8 : 1 Forged Pistons - Edlebrock Goodies:  Aluminum Heads #6037, Intake #3821, 65mm TBI/EGR #3824/3827, Camshaft #3722 -  Interactive System & Technologies Mass Air with 24# Injectors - A9L - 3g Alternator - BBK shorties, Cat Converter H-pipe, Magniflow lers - World Class T5 1352-169 (1986, V8, WC, 3.15 3.35 1.93 1.29 1.00 0.68) OEM Clutch Cable - 7.5 Trac Lock with 3.08 and slapper bars from 82 Mustang.

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #17
Was this issue ever resolved?  I have the same problem on my 88 right now...massive positive camber.  adjusted the top mounts all the way inboard and the camber remains...ride height is about an inch higher too...so besides buying the CC plates, which seems to be a band-aid for the situation...what is the solution?  is the angle on the 11' spindles different than the 10'?
1988 Cougar LS - Cinnabar/Rose Quartz Metallic two tone - 3.8 V6 - Rescue
1988 Cougar LS - Cinnabar/Rose Quartz Metallic two tone - 5.0 V8 - Survivor

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #18
Was this issue ever resolved?  I have the same problem on my 88 right now...massive positive camber.  adjusted the top mounts all the way inboard and the camber remains...ride height is about an inch higher too...so besides buying the CC plates, which seems to be a band-aid for the situation...what is the solution?  is the angle on the 11' spindles different than the 10'?
 Ok, did you keep your stock control arms (a arms), or did you use the Fox stang arms?

What struts did you use?

If you used Fox CA's on the '86, '87 and '88 K member, you'll get positive camber for sure. Also, using Fox Stang struts will cause some issues unless your car is lowered. Use SN95 struts for stockish height, on that note.

There's also of course the differences between the '94-5 spindled and the 96 and up spindles but that's not going to be a concern for you with this camber issue.

'84 Mustang
'98 Explorer 5.0
'03 Focus, dropped a valve seat. yay. freakin' split port engines...
'06 Explorer EB 4.6

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #19
Was this issue ever resolved?  I have the same problem on my 88 right now...massive positive camber.  adjusted the top mounts all the way inboard and the camber remains...ride height is about an inch higher too...so besides buying the CC plates, which seems to be a band-aid for the situation...what is the solution?  is the angle on the 11' spindles different than the 10'?
Ok, did you keep your stock control arms (a arms), or did you use the Fox stang arms?

What struts did you use?

If you used Fox CA's on the '86, '87 and '88 K member, you'll get positive camber for sure. Also, using Fox Stang struts will cause some issues unless your car is lowered. Use SN95 struts for stockish height, on that note.

There's also of course the differences between the '94-5 spindled and the 96 and up spindles but that's not going to be a concern for you with this camber issue.


Everything is still stock; control arms, tie rods, springs, and shocks.  Only thing I changed was the spindle and brakes.  I understand that earlier years have different control arms and such, and this problem would be expected on those years, but I was under the impression that if i took 11" brakes and spindles from another 88', nothing would be incompatable.
1988 Cougar LS - Cinnabar/Rose Quartz Metallic two tone - 3.8 V6 - Rescue
1988 Cougar LS - Cinnabar/Rose Quartz Metallic two tone - 5.0 V8 - Survivor

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #20
Did you remove the lower control arm and/or remove the springs during the installation of the 11" brake spindles?

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #21
what are the spindles from? V8 Mustang? Though those alone won't cause the camber issue you have..

One other thing, and I think this is what aerocoupe may be getting at....did you loosen the control arm-to-frame bolts?
If you undo them, and then retorque with the suspension unloaded, you'll have some of what you have now.

I've seen a few junkyard Mustangs with those offset bolts that can be turned to alter the the camber, do you have those in there, by chance? Though I don't think they were used on regular 11" spindles. I think the ones I saw were all on SN95 and newer mustangs (5 lug stuff).

Lastly can you get a few pics of what you have?

'84 Mustang
'98 Explorer 5.0
'03 Focus, dropped a valve seat. yay. freakin' split port engines...
'06 Explorer EB 4.6

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #22
That is exactly what I was getting at along with making sure you have the pigtail on the coil spring placed correctly into the LCA.

Turn the front driver wheel all the way to make a right hand turn and take a picture from the back of the wheel so we can see all of the suspension.  Turn the wheel all the way to make a left hand turn and take a picture from the front of the wheel so we can see all of the suspension.

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #23
From your signature.           "Custom fabricated front frame rails"   Was the suspension altered during this work possibly ?
84 COUGAR/90 HO, 1.7RRs, performer RPM,700DP, equal length shorties, stainless EXH ,T-5,Hurst pro-billet, KC clutch, 8.8/ 4.10s, line-lok, bla ,bla, bla.
71 COMET/289,351w heads, 12.5 TRWs, 750DP, Liberty TL, 9"/6.00s, 11.9x @112 , bla,bla,bla.

Never shoot your mouth off, unless your brain is loaded! ....I may get older, but I'll never grow up!....If you're not laughing, you're not living!  :laughing:

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #24
Firstly...my signature is 10 years out of date, this is my 2nd cougar and it's all original, not ized at all.  No, I did not unbolt the control arms or remove the springs in any way; i cracked the ball joint, lowered the control arm down with the floor jack to replace the spindle, then jacked it back up into position.

I had a problem similar to what you are predicting with my 1st cougar, in that the control arm bushings were seized and would not articulate at all, basically giving me solid suspension.  But, i am able to freely bounce this car on its suspension.

Are the shocks/springs different on an 11" equipped car??



1988 Cougar LS - Cinnabar/Rose Quartz Metallic two tone - 3.8 V6 - Rescue
1988 Cougar LS - Cinnabar/Rose Quartz Metallic two tone - 5.0 V8 - Survivor

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #25
So what I am looking for is a shot like this from the front:

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/attachments/dsc_0543-jpg.599908/

And then one from the back with the same wheel turned the complete opposite direction.


83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #26
Are the shocks/springs different on an 11" equipped car??
 No, those wouldn't make a difference, the spindle is the same dimensions per mounting points as the stock 10" brake version...

You didn't happen to change sway bar end links did you? I read a thread on a different forum several years ago where a guy put the wrong ones in his Stang, caused the front to sit about an inch higher in front than it did before, though that won't affect camber (or affect it enough to visually see it..)

They ended up being too long and from a completely different vehicle, too...
'84 Mustang
'98 Explorer 5.0
'03 Focus, dropped a valve seat. yay. freakin' split port engines...
'06 Explorer EB 4.6

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #27
So changing the height of the front vehicle directly affects the static camber.  Taller will pull the bottom of the tire in (positive camber) lower will push the bottom of the tire out (negative camber).

So on a 24" tall tire one (1) degree of negative static camber at the tire moves the top of the tire in 0.21" and the bottom out 0.21" and move the tire the opposite way for positive camber.  This is a very generalized down and dirty calculation just using tan theta = opp/adj with theta = 1 degree and adj - 24" and in this case 1 deg = 0.42".  For a tire another generalized notion is that its just not the top or bottom of the tire doing all the movement being the tire is pinned to the spindle at its center.  This would roughly split the movement equally to the top and bottom of the tire.

Anyhow, Chuck can really put some math to this but all I was doing was trying to give you an general idea as to how much you can expect the top and bottom of the tire to move when adjusting camber.

So if you lower a car by putting shorter springs in it you get negative camber and have to move the top of the strut towards the motor.  If you raise a car by installing taller springs then you will have to move the top of the strut away from the motor.

Putting the front sway bar in a bind can raise the car.  For the front sway bar you should be able to freely rotate it in the frame mount bushings with little to no effort if the bushings are made of prothane and greased.  If the frame mount bushings are OEM rubber then it will take a little effort to move them when new and the contact surface on the sway bar is clean and not pitted.  In either instance you should finish tightening the frame mount bushing bolts with the suspension loaded and the bar ends as close to parallel to the ground as you can get them.  With that once you install the end links the ends of the bar should still be parallel to the ground.  I tighten the end links until the bushings are flush with the washers and use nylock nuts.  Due to my cars being lowered I have to cut the sleeve that goes in between the bottom bar washer and the top control arm washer to get the bar ends parallel to the ground.  Which also means finding shorter grade 5 or 8 end link bolts at the hardware store.

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #28
Looking at your pics, the front is toed-in, that's not helping things. But it's also sitting higher, which is going to affect toe and camber, as mentioned. (The wheel turning in also adds positive camber to the "outside" wheel on a (stock) Fox-chassis car. Toeing in means both wheels are acting like the "outside" wheel)

You mentioned that you didn't loosen the lower control arm mounts, but how far did you allow the arm to drop when you loosened the ball joint? It's possible you put a bind in the bushings when you did that, and now they have a new "set", causing the bushings to add some lift to the front.

The spindles aren't the problem (other than possibly affecting the toe setting), so my guess is control arm bushings.

Try loosening the control arm bolts and bouncing the front of the car, or taking it for a short spin to see if things settle back down, then tighten them back up with the weight of the car on the wheels.
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo

Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad.

Reply #29
Yes, I forgot to add that 11" spindle upgrade will definitely cause a toe-in issue. Though that's secondary here..(but as CHuck mentions, an issue to sort out all the same)
'84 Mustang
'98 Explorer 5.0
'03 Focus, dropped a valve seat. yay. freakin' split port engines...
'06 Explorer EB 4.6