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Topic: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8? (Read 6679 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #15
oopps, sorry :brick:
forgot who i was talking to for a moment. :wtf:

oh, and i did not try,, i did call you a name,,, suck it up pilgram.  We all take some abuse and your not different. :evilgrin:

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #16
OK then, I'll be carbon-copying back to you that PM you sent me a few weeks back.

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #17
actually when you think about it,, if you delete the smog pump, the egr will not longer operate normal.  See,, the darn thing opens up and this path in the intake depends on the smog pump path as well.  its really no good having the smog pump missing and stll having that egr building up debris on the bottom of the CFI and the intake ports. Whats the good of having this vac operated one way valve (egr) when half the map is missing? where is all this grim and goop gonna go now if you only half do it. 
remember,, you still have to deal with that valve mounted on the pass side of the intake that blows out.  I dont think you would wanna plug it off cause it does push stuff out all the time. 
If you leave it un-muffeled (sp), its gonna be a very noisy device so either way you will have this problem.

they (egr / smog pump) work together, one without the other is like shoes and no laces.

just food for thought,, think bout it

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #18
A bit better. You could've just said this without calling me a "buffoon".

It does, however, contradict an earlier post by someone else.. saying that EGR and Thermactor are not tied together.

I am willing to consider deleting the EGR.. IF the removal of the smog pump system screws things up for the functioning of the EGR system. But, as stated much earlier, I would prefer to avoid removing other emissions systems if reasonably possible.

You know, "emissions" is not a dirty word to everyone. While I'm not exactly what most people would consider to be a granola-munching tree-hugging hippie liberal, (I get called things like redneck more than I get called anything of that kind.. lol) I do have some appreciation for the environment around me. Aside from the hurricanes, I realize I live in a great area with tons of natural beauty all around me.. and it isn't (yet) a crime to have some appreciation for that.. and also isn't (yet) a crime to make *reasonable* efforts to do my part to keep things that way.

BTW.. if you find the thread in the lounge about Kyoto and catalytic converters, you'll see that my first motivation for hammering out my cats (and removing the smog pump, since it becomes rather pointless without catalyst) has to do with changing *what* is emitted from the car, *not* just looking for more power. I won't complain about a little more power, though.

BTW, "shoes with no laces" wasn't the best of analogies, considering the shoes I wear every day have no laces or fasteners of any kind.. heh. Cheap slip-on shoes I bought for gardening.

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #19
Quote
It does, however, contradict an earlier post by someone else.. saying that EGR and Thermactor are not tied together.
Correct.
EGR is *used* exhaust gasses tapped from an intake crossover passage and allowed into the intake just after the throttle valve.

Thermactor air is *fresh* air pumped through check valves to either the cats, the exhaust manifolds, or dumped to the outside world.

Deleting the EGR?
Adjust the timing to get rid of pre-ignition, as the computer will still think it's there and will be adjusting timing and fuel mixture accordingly.

Deleting the Thermactor?
Don't be surprised if the Check Engine starts complaining about a thermactor system fault, since the ECU won't see an O2 sensor  difference when it thinks it's injecting air.

Quote
and were never needed in the first place

Argus Duntov - GM Engineer: "Parts left out cost nothing and pose no service problems."
Death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

1988 5.0 Bird, mostly stock, partly not, now gone to T-Bird heaven.
1990 Volvo 740GL. 114 tire-shredding horsies, baby!

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #20
for the most part, ill agree with you on emissions.  Im a kind of tree hugger myself and enjoy nature but thats a different conversation.

As for the emissions design in our cars, i have an opinion so someone more familiar with this clear me up if im wrong.

here is what i think is correct.....

Back when the US goverment started to require emissions standards, a design was needed quickly to retrofit already existing engine designs.  Ford, Chevy , Chrysler and everyone else had to scramble to figure out all this and as a result, thats exactly why we 3.8 folks have aluminum heads / smog pump/ egr,,ect ect.

The design we have today is the yesteryear version of what is running on the road today in newer cars.  In my opinion, our design is not the best and is a result of quick learning put into action.  So we inherit these pieces parts only to look on at newer cars with the same if not more emissions parts but pulling more horse power and quicker times with better gas mileage as stock engines.

They were still sort of learning while our design was put together but todays engines are a totally different story.  Our engines run better without this stuff.
As for todays engines,, i dont know what would happen if you took off all the emissions puppies.  I enjoy knowing our cars are flexable enough to have all this stuff removed and run as good if not better without emissions.

____________________________

back to your issue,, i forgot about another option that sounds like something that would suit you.  I did this at first so i would not have to remove the pump at all or mess with any plumbing at that moment.
This might be what your looking for as an alternative.
-Loosen smog pump bolts (three 10mm bolts)
-remove old belt
-remove by hand the three bolts you loosened up on smog pump pully
-pry off by hand the plasic fan you find behind the smog pump pully
-purchase a 77 1/2'' belt
-install new belt.
-you will notice this new belt barely misses hitting the face of you smog pump
-start engine and you *might* hear the belts edge rub the face of the pump but this will only be for a minor moment in time.

done.
now you dont have to touch anything else anywhere other than the smog system.  It still looks stock and passes the visual check for the emissions folks,,if they dont notice the belt drive system.  the smog pump is kind of burried anyway so i dont think it would be noticed unless someone was looking for it.
this is by far the easiest way i know to take the smog pump out of the picture.

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #21
In the almost 21 years I've owned mt '84 3.8 T-Bird it has never come close to failing an emissions test. It was last tested in 2001. In Maryland if you are over 70 and drive less than 5000 miles per year you can apply for a waiver from testing, which I now do to save the $14.

The 2001 test:
Hydrocarbons (HC)  State Standards 2.0000 GPM
                                      Tested  0.1639 GPM

Carbon Monoxide (CO) State Standards 30.0000 GPM
                                          Tested  1.4385 GPM

Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) State Standards 3.0000 GPM
                                              Tested 0.0252 GPM

It looks like something is working.

I think your talk about being in the early primitive stages of emission controls applys more to the early 70's than the early 80's.

Maybe I'll try and see how fast it will run a qtr mile to see how it compares.

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #22
Quote from: softtouch


It looks like something is working.

I think your talk about being in the early primitive stages of emission controls applys more to the early 70's than the early 80's.

Maybe I'll try and see how fast it will run a qtr mile to see how it compares.


your probably right while im probably mostly wrong ill admit. :dunce:    You've been around the block more than i have. Thunderchicken sent me a oem write up on the egr system and how it works,, i was blow away by all the thoughts and details in the background of what we dont see.

However,, i do think i have "getting rid of that stuff" nailed down pretty well.

Btw,, you anywhere near clinton md?

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #23
About 45 miles from Clinton. I'm in Lusby which is on the western shore of the bay near Solomons Island.

 

Re: Smog pump delete on CFI 3.8?

Reply #24
OK, after working on the '88 yesterday and developing a loathing for its smog pump setup, I'm almost ready to go forward with the delete on the '86. One discrepancy, though. I decided to use some twine to double-check belt length, just going over the front of the smog pump pulley instead of around it. I got a length of about 80 inches. (80 1/2" if I pulled really hard on the twine when measuring it)

You list a belt of 77 1/2".. I got 80" from my measurement.. and checking Summit's site for their selection of belts, I see the nearest size Goodyear belts are 73 1/2" and 79". Checking PartsAmerica.com for Advance's belts, I see a 77 1/2" belt for cars w/o A/C. Are all these belt sizes (except maybe the 73 1/2", which would seem to be way too small) workable with idler pulley adjustment? I should also be replacing the idler pulley when I do this, because the noise is getting worse. (as far as I know, the noise is coming from there.. guess I'll be screwed if it isn't)

BTW, my measurement technique was to run the twine next to the belt, not over it. Don't know if that makes any difference, but when possible I ran the twine right on the pulleys.