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Topic: cranks no start **Diagosed** (Read 792 times) previous topic - next topic

cranks no start **Diagosed**

87 20th anny coug  5.0L 378,000 original miles

cranks no start.

fuel pres - 40psi during crank
spark tester at a random plug wire shows pulsating light
swapped remote ignitioin module (my mod to the TFI), still no start
Noid light inserted into an injector plug , during crank the light blinks very quickly

so it apears i have spark, fuel and injector reaction but still no start.

i was under the impression that if the hall effect was bad that my noid light would not blink but it is and in my opinion it seems to blink whay quicker than i expect during crank.  AS in i thought the injector would only blink when its respective stator would pass through the hull effect.  what i am seeing is something like several blinks during a rotor button single revolution. 

any suggestions or thoughts?  im swapping the dizzy tomorrow meaing i have rebuild one beause my standby unit never got rebuilt like i intended way back when.

i am very surprised that i have everything i need for the engine to  start & run.   an almost impossible situation again lands in my lap. 

Re: cranks no start

Reply #1
So what's the rest of the situation?
Has the car been sitting? Just put it back together? Just out of the blue stopped starting?
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo

Re: cranks no start

Reply #2
Bad PIP module in the distributor "usually" doesnt result in no start condition.
How did you know you had fuel pressure? If you are getting fuel pressure im not going to mention checking the ecu for bad capacitors.
You didnt mention anything about timing, did you check it?
"Beating the hell out of other peoples cars since 1999"
1983 Ford Thunderbird Heritage
1984 Ford Mustang GT Turbo Convertible

Re: cranks no start

Reply #3
the 20th is my daily driver still. 
it just failed to start today.  It was out 4 days ago. 
i hooked up a fuel pres tester during cranking to conclude that the pump was moving fuel.
I will check the timing tomorrow morning,, should've dont that already but didnt think to
I will also random check a couple 5v ckts in the engine bay.
and ,,, duh,, i guess i will pull codes & might as well compression test also while im troubleshooting this.
I may make it a youtube on my "I Fix It All" channel.  t
i may title it "Ford 5.0L- you have AIR, Fuel and spark yet no start".  yes this may sound misleading because its likely impossible but....... stranger things have happened. 
On a positive note though atleast im not dealing with canbus stuff!

i do have my ign sw start & run & accy ckts slave relayed out proper for many years now.
no modifications to speak of though,, all original ,, never opened up , been running rotella 15w40 since 08 when i got it from a seller here.

i agree on the pip comment,, but i dont even get a hint that it even sounds like its going to fire,,, it just sounds like its just spinning.  I just thought that one way to determine if the pip is bad is to see if the injectors are getting eec signal.  i was hoping to see no pulsing on the injector to confirm but it did pulse and rather quickly .

Yes impretty sure the caps could be redone as well,, ive got plenty of radial electrolytics to pick from.  i think last i checked though i had to dig deep for the proper 10uf one on my son's 88bird.  Im sure my 1990 351 bronco would appreciate the same attention.

Re: cranks no start

Reply #4
Since you checked everything already, I would spray some starting fluid in it to see if it fire and if it sounds okay.  All this cranking do you smell fuel?

Did you say the motor has never been opened?  378k on the nylon coated timing chain gear?
1988 Thunderbird TC, 5spd
Stinger 3" single exhaust, Cone Filter, Adjustable Cam Pulley, Schneider roller cam, Walbro 255 lph, AEM Wideband O2
'93 Mustang Cobra replica wheels on 235/50R17

'16 F150 XLT 5.0
'17 Husqvarna TX300

Re: cranks no start

Reply #5
no fuel smell, it didnt take me many cranks to get the information i have now.  all in i have about 20min into this troubleshooting.

i hear you on the timing set!!,, new set still in the box.
I have been afraid to mess with the bolts on the timing cover ,, them breaking off or something.
i am absolutly postive there is a substantial amount of slack that the eec is maxed out on how much it can compensate for.


Re: cranks no start

Reply #6
i got to nothing today,, and perhaps maybe tomorrow either due to temps outside but i may try anyway.
today got absorbed by property tax, some misc shopping then getting back to find out my partition in cyber monday is required.

i'll make a list....
pull codes
inject fuel into the TB to see if the motor even hits
check for blown fuses
check timing
check compression
check misc 5v ckts
maybe swap in another TFI spare just to be sure i didnt swap a bad for bad



Re: cranks no start

Reply #7
so from my to do list above

codes are pointless, i needed to take the coug batt over to the bronco yesterday. then charge the bronco's for the coug.
i could pull memory codes i guess

spraying fuel in the TB did not generate a hint of the engine even wanting to "hit",, just engine whirl , no hits

no blown fuses in my fuse panel or my remote slave relay fuse panel

5.2v on my 5v reference up in the engine bay

did not swap in "another" TFI on the dizzy.

I did check timing and it appears i cant see the marks show up so it looks like i jumped time.  compression test would have confirmed i bet.

tomorrow i will dial the crank to zero TDC and pull the #1 plug then feel where the piston is with a screw driver.
im 90% sure i jumped time but tomorrow will tell me more.  I'm betting #1 piston is way down the tube.

GOOD TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Re: cranks no start **Diagosed**

Reply #8
rotated crank to tdc and the piston was really high which sorta sounds good.
I observed the rotor button location and it appeared to be a tad bit too far away from dizzy cap #1 post than normal even with 12 or so deg BTDC figured in.

so............ i figured there's only one thing left to do in order to be 99.9% sure i jumped time so i did a compression test on a few random cylinders.
cly 1, 2, 3, 5 & 6 all had about 90psi.

this low reading on each is equal wish is good.
it also tells me that the likelyhood i jumped ONE tooth might just be the case due to having such a high psi in my broken state.

so.......................................... now i will pray all the timing cover bolts come out.  if they dont,, well, thats going to really suck but   i suppose thats what a drill and thread repair kits are made for. 

I think for this situation i am in, i will be removing the header panel and front bumper cover & bumper.
Life is going to be so much easier doing this job with the motor in the car.   at 375k miles though.......urrgh. 

what i am actually attempting to do is run this rotella 15w40 motor for as long as i can to set some sort of personal record which i hope other people here have tried or are doing.  Proving its hard to break a pushrod motor is finally becoming mainstream on a lot fo the car channels on youtube lately.  All these miles are highway i might add,, well 80% of them are.

Re: cranks no start **Diagosed**

Reply #9
I think step 1 is to heat each bolt before i losen then,, and maybe use my batt powered impact set on its lowest setting possible to shock each bolt loose.

Re: cranks no start **Diagosed**

Reply #10
Some advice before tearing into that with an impact, if you have the opportunity to let it sit some go pick up a can of the stuff called Free All and spray that on them, spray the :p of them let them soak for a day do it again the next day. Then use a breaker bar on them instead of an impact.
Works really well on exhaust stuff this way and my buddy did his timing chain on his 5.0 without breaking any bolts.
The kit for new ones is expensive ive noticed.
"Beating the hell out of other peoples cars since 1999"
1983 Ford Thunderbird Heritage
1984 Ford Mustang GT Turbo Convertible

Re: cranks no start **Diagosed**

Reply #11
i'll find that stuff and maybe do a youtube review.
I was going to use candle wax and torch,, it wicks in as it gets heated.  check out the vids on using wax on bolts to loosen them.

For the bolts,, ive thought about an alternative ,, use threaded studs with nuts custom cut to length.  i actually dont want to put the oem bolt kit back in if i have to.  ive seen those Long shank bolts corroded down 50% or more of their original thickness.

now i think of it,, maybe stainless threaded stock would be the best.  then from now and until next time all i have to do is take off all the Nylock nuts i imagine i would use.

Re: cranks no start **Diagosed**

Reply #12

Did you say the motor has never been opened?  378k on the nylon coated timing chain gear?


im back with an update,,,, yes Mikey, original gear set... motor never opened up.

here is the vid but  ............  you all are not going to believe what happened. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjVRYqL4dXU

enjoy

Re: cranks no start **Diagosed**

Reply #13
That'll do it.
 :toothless:
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo

Re: cranks no start **Diagosed**

Reply #14
Looks awful dry in there. However that chain is supposed to get lubed aint working.
Is the shallow end of the pan in the front?
Can you look in or stick something in the pan to see if there's oil there?
Maybe it is supposed to splash or sling oil up from the pan.