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Topic: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down***SOLVED (Read 9582 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #60
as the engine begins its death,, the rpms slowly start to sag.. then the motor recovers but then the motor starts to sag again and the motor dies.

so,, it appears the fuel pump remains on line throughout the engine problem from start up to its death. 

I know i have a code for fuel pump ground but it seems ok.


Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #61
codes now trying to rememdy moving code 95 to memory...
we added a jumper wire to the fuel tank to batt neg.
ran car till it died.
ran car again until it died.

codes now
on demand codes KOEO
95

Memory
14
66
95
87

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #62
ok,,
screw it..
we are doing a fuel pump.... and we are going in through the trunk.

we checked vac at idle,, steady 17psi
put vac tester on the fuel pres reg and it held 20psi rock solid for a long while. (engine off of course).


Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #63
The MAF upgrade  should have run a wire from the PK/BK wire that goes to the fuel pump to pin 19 of the EEC.
The 88 EVTM page 61 shows the wire already in there at C455. Shown as N/C (not connected)
This C455 is near the EEC and has the red , yellow and tan wires that go to the pump relay.
The EVTM shows you should have the pink/black wire there also.

This is the fuel pump monitor circuit.
This should have nothing to do with how the car runs.

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #64
thank you,,

update..
fuel pump changed,, problem remains.

we are moving over to test light the Coil and continuity check the eec pin 4 eec resistor and check that no TFI conductors are touching each other.


Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #65
with battery unhooked,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
unplugged the ign sw
unplugged EEC
unplugged TFI
measured resistance of the Tach wire dg/y wire from the TFI conn all the way out to the eec conn = 22.6k ohms= pass

with eec hooked up,
we continuity checked all 6 conductors to each other up at the TFI
we have continuity from pins 3, 4, 5.
the 1988 evtm shows pin 3 lands on the eec eventually
the 1987 evtm does not show pin 3 goes to the evtem.
I went out to my 20th coug and found with my tfi unhooked, i to have continuity from pin 4 & 5 but not 3.

with eec unhooked
with tfi unhooked
we continuity checked all 6 conductors to each other up at the TFI
Pin 3, 4 , 5 have continuity to each other.
i do not know what to make of this.

moving on to coil "test light" test.


Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #66
Coil test with test light

test light from red/lt gn to chassis
koeo= pass
koer= pass, add rpm light still holds strong ,, engine dies and light remains strong

test light across the primary
KOEO= no light pass
KOER= light comes on and pulses as expected,, add RPM and engine starts to die tach signal reacts accordingly in an irractic manner as the engine tries to recover until the engine dies and the light goes out.

so
what stands out in this post is that with the ign sw , eec & tfi unhooked along with battery unhooked, the TFI pins 3,4,5 have continiuity and i do not know why

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #67
next up,, we are going into the instrument cluster to see out our tac signal

it appears from our test light that the engine falling on its face around 3krpm is  coordinating with the loss of tac signal on the gauge.  our test light blink pattern tells us we have a spark related issue,,,

that will be tomorrow

this conductor has a splice point that offers 4 paths.
at the coil it offers two paths.

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #68
My EVTMs don't show the TFI connector pin numbers..
Can you reference the pin numbers to circuit numbers? 

Did the test light blink pattern change before the engine completely stopped?

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #69
My research of the TFI connector tells me:
pin 3--Circuit 16  hot in start or run
pin 4--Circuit 32  hot in start.
pin 5--Circuit 324  SPOUT yellow/light green wire.

With the TFI & EEC connectors disconnected:
Pins 3 & 4 having continuity is OK. They both got to components that connect to ground.
 Pin 5 SPOUT having continuity to any other pin NOT GOOD

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #70
here you go,,

pin 5 is not the spout,, pin 5 is the  tach signal dg/y.


the 87  & 88 evtm diagrams do not match for 5.0L.
physically the colors are the same for all six pins in colors so the 5.0L diagrams are likely wrong.

Pin 3 of the tfi within the 87 evtm shows no termination to the eec
Pin 3 of the tfi within the 88 evtm  shows a termination to the eec

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #71
softtouch,,
"if" its true that on the 87 cars,, pins 4&5 have terminations to the eec ,,, and if the 88 evtm is true to have pins 3, 4 & 5 wired to the eec,,, then perhaps what we are seeing is correct.

either way if we disconnect the eec, we should loose continuity yet you have identified a way for  pins 4 & 5 to remain and tone out to each other.

if what you have found is true,, i am thinking it may be possible for pin 3 to also do the same thing,, pin 3 being the red/lt blu

Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #72
Sorry for the long delay..Had to run over to Delaware this morning.
I googled the TFI pinout and came up with them numbered in the opposite direction.
Anyhoo the tach wire will have continuity to 3&4 because it goes to the Tachometer.
All three of those pins go to components that are referenced to ground.
The 88 EVTM doesn't show the Sport model cluster wiring. You have to look at page 47 Turbo wiring to see the Tach hook-up.

On page 149 cluster connectors, there is only one wire difference between turbo and sport lx and xr-7


Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #73
ok,, then we may want to use wire colors,, i may be backwards on my numbering convention.
the physical connector i thought was labeled Top down 1-6.  i recall and confirm what you are saying though.

here is the 88evtm showing pin3 (red / light blue also leading to the eec

earlier i said the RED/LB wire for the 88evtm terminates to the eec.  which is what i refer to above as pin 3 .

this wire i speak to red/lb lands on the ign sw  as another tap / color brn/wh ckt 376.

my point is i should stop using pin numbers and use wire colors.
so to edit my earlier post................
with the ign sw , eec & tfi unhooked along with battery unhooked, the TFI wires below have continuity with each other.
rd/lg
r/lb
dg/y


Re: 88 Bird intermittent engine shut down

Reply #74
unhooked inst cluster= problem remains

moving on to isolating the tach signal dg/y

we will disc the batt then ..............
tone to chassis
then....
tone to the load side of each fuse to see if this wire is touching another load circuit.