Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Swapping => Topic started by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 11:31:30 AM

Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 11:31:30 AM
I have had this car for I guess now 23years and its the only car either of my boys have known me to own since getting the 20th in 07.
time flies though, here is a picture of them together back when it was a six cyl, helping me button up things a little bit back when I was on a serious budget build,, that's back in 2000 I think.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 11:39:28 AM
here we are today
pulling out a failed attempt on my part , with an empty bay we start to demo the parts of the car we need out of the way and get this thing torn down again.

Simple engine work over here, going HO SD, I have a choice of 4 different HO eec's

Engine
rotating parts on hand are a 331 with forged pistons
cam is a choice of three different ones I have bought from members here
Block will be .020 over
oil galleys will be tapped and plugged
still need a new oil pan.

heads are from a member here
1969 4v casting with April 29th 1972 foundry date. (requires 18mm thread plug which availability concerns me but oh well)
 302 / 71-74 / D1TZ-A,D2OE-BA / 58.2 / 1.78/1.45
 upgrades are :
 ~Ferrea 6000 valves with 1.94 Intake & 1.6 exhaust with bronze guides
 ~approc 54CC which should be as discussed around 10:1 compression
 ~Isky adjustable guide plates
 ~Cnc ported by Power Heads
 ~beehive springs with unknown seat pressure (will check this myself, desire about 110lbs
 ~3/8'' studded
Head gaskets are still an item I need to special purchase.

Intake choices on hand are aftermarket cobra FMS remake, or a Professional Products upper / lower

fuel rails are a choice of oem or fabricating the explorer rear feed

transmission is this...could be good up to 500hp....>http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?19763-500-Hp-Aod-quot-SOLD-quot&highlight=

fuel pump has not been chosen yet.

exhaust
We are going to attempt a rectangular exhaust system approx. 1.5'' x 3'' and see how we make out.  it should hug close to the same height as the subframes making it less visible.  Chance wants it to exit in front of the rear wheels but I don't think that is "state inspection" legal... ?

paint color is up in the air for the moment,, interior desires are Raven like interior

Rear gear- lets not even discuss this part although I can only avoid the topic for a short period of time.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 11:58:23 AM
to get started we have to reset the clock and pull out the old motor which is done... then get out the drive shaft.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 12:01:41 PM
next we need to get the heater core mod done
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 12:08:45 PM
lots of stuff taken off the car now to expose the things that make our cars end up in the junk yards.
we will find and repair all of it.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 12:10:26 PM
here are a few walk around shots
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 12:13:21 PM
a few more,,
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 12:15:00 PM
and more
the lower core support was from damage by way of a log chain pulling my wife out of a ditch years ago.

the upper frame appears to be the location of the F'ing mouse nest that harassed me off and on with random babies popping up inside my car ,,, no fun at all while driving!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 12:18:34 PM
so we start the sand blasting process and Loctite protection over top of that.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on November 30, 2014, 01:09:54 PM
Gonna throw a t-5 in while your at it? Should also upgrade the brakes if you get a chance. I have some stock stang spindles id let go cheap if you want them.

Good luck Scott and son.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 30, 2014, 02:12:34 PM
Can't do the five speed because I got that nice AOD

Were thinking about getting rid of the K frame for a tubular but we need to find the right price point
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on November 30, 2014, 03:24:56 PM
I love a good restoration project
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on November 30, 2014, 09:40:41 PM
A couple engine opinions:

Since you have a 331 I would use the Professional Products (Edelbrock Performer RPM knock off) intake manifold. You want a shorter runner intake as with more displacement you don't need as long of intake runners to keep the low rpm torque up. Also what cam choices do you have? If you could post up the specs we could help you make a decision.

Good luck with your project. Sounds like fun :)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on November 30, 2014, 10:18:28 PM
Most of the sandblasting on this side is done. You can tell where I still need to touch it up, but for the most part it's working good.

I'm glad we went with the sandblaster instead of a wire brush lol

We're using a rust prevention/neutralizer by locktite. Any opinions or warnings on that particular product??
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on December 01, 2014, 12:48:05 AM
Got a coat of primer on.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on December 01, 2014, 12:55:25 AM
thunderjet302 > Still deciding on which intake to put on there. I'm young so looks plays a role in my decision lol

We have 3 HO cams to choose from. Can anyone help to decipher the codes on them later on to determine which is gonna be best for the engine?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: V8Demon on December 01, 2014, 08:45:50 AM
Post up pictures of the cams. 

Don't waste time on the pump.  Go with a 255.  It's a return style system so...

You're going with a built AOD so you'll be fine.  It's amazing the difference between my AOD and a stocker in terms of feel and performance.  I should imagine you'll understand that soon enough.

Do you have the flow #'s for those heads?  I would imagine they're going to flow a good deal better than a set of stock E7's.  19 pound injectors at the stock pressure setting may not be enough.

Keep us updated!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 01, 2014, 08:59:04 AM
I am sure the stock 19's are not going to flow enough,, I speculate we are on the cuff of 3 or so psi per injector to be at the bare minimum.  I am considering trying out a set of 21LB to see if the eec can manage them to offset the leanness and an appropriate o2 sensor, the o2 sensor is bugging me pretty early in our project because I know we may need a special application wide band. 
An adjustable FPR will take up some of this slack needed along with a better than stock fuel pump.  At the end of the day I am also speculating chance here will have to be mass air much sooner than we think.  I am also wanting this car to be affordable to drive,,, so there needs to be some compromise for the wallets sake.

My older son mason is running fine with his SD 19's but is not stroked, only poked & ho swapped with exploder top end.

speaking to cams, I have the original shipping boxes, I can ask the sellers what cars they "know" or "think" they came from.  I have never been able to cypher cam numbers to tell me exactly what application they came from,, perhaps you did a table on this... for all I know I may have a link to it in my diy thread.

I tend to collect parts up for future projects and complement them with spare options, with cams, I think I dropped the ball tracking the application.  all the other stuff I can look at and know or reference our data to cypher.  Sometimes but rarely I have a so called "option" on my table like an EEC that has arrived and suppose to be an HO but turns out not to be nothing more than a SD SO , live and learn...

either way,, engine stuff is not for a few weeks out but we don't want to be stabbing the engine bay on guesswork either.

as for the heads and their flow,, I can ask the seller if there any machine work results on this. they will flow well better than any of the GT's I am certain.

Chance is really liking the black you have V8demon and he is amazed at project evolution, I told him to go read up on almost 200 pages of hard work evolution can teach him and I.
Since black may be our color , its going to be a game changer on  how we prep and paint... I was hoping he would stay white although all it would take is a few more small things done in prep work / demo then color will no longer matter.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 01, 2014, 09:14:14 PM
With a 331 I would defiantly use the Typhoon intake, even with a stock HO cam. I would also do a MAF conversion if you could as well.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on December 02, 2014, 01:34:48 PM
These are the cam shaft numbers. The filename for two of them has the number as well as who it came from, and the third I had no idea about.

Good luck haha!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 02, 2014, 05:58:47 PM
If those are all stock HO cams just pick the best looking one and run it. There isn't much of a difference between them.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 03, 2014, 10:43:18 AM
I went through my cams (4)
2) sd non-ho cams ended up being lobe angled different from the other two which came from:

kitz kat- 1) ho cam but I need to dig into my pm's or other threads to find out what year it is.
thefoeyouknow- 1) ho cam but I need to dig into my pm's or other threads to find out what year it is.

at this point the focus is on rust mitigation and preservation.
metal repair to the lower core support
under side of car is full of 28 years of oil leaks caked on about 1/8'' thick and all black... its acting like undercoating.

we will move from the front frame work to the rear, drop the tank to expose corrosion in back.

we will move on to door and trunk repair next

Fenders will come next blast and repair from about 4 deer collisions and past repairs I have done.

next is exterior body / prime work and at some point here soon *someone* :)  will have to have made up their minds as to what color we are going.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on December 03, 2014, 09:56:03 PM
Make sure you have a good gas mask I'f your gonna apply locktite rust neutralizer in mass. It's not fun. Lol

In similar news, the drivers side is blasted and coated with. Tomarrow were gonna prime it and move on to either the front or the bay depending.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on December 05, 2014, 06:05:53 PM
Almost done with the primer.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jandmmustangs on December 05, 2014, 07:07:12 PM
Lookin good guys
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Lodemia on December 06, 2014, 09:56:00 AM
This'll be nice when it's done. I love watching one be saved.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 06, 2014, 11:41:10 AM
Great project for the winter!! Are going to weld in some new metal when the rust has eaten away and where the log chain incident happened?

Just remember that 302 parts make 302 power.  Sell all four of your stock cams and run a cam for a 331 and the heads you have.  You are going to surpass what 24 lb/hr injectors can handle so you should really think about some 30's and a programmer or a chip and dyno tune.  The 331 will run with an HO cam and 19 lb/hr injectors but you will never get the power out of it you will get with a better matched cam and bigger injectors.  Either way you go don't forget the subframe connectors.

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 06, 2014, 03:03:21 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;441357
  The 331 will run with an HO cam and 19 lb/hr injectors but you will never get the power out of it you will get with a better matched cam and bigger injectors.  Either way you go don't forget the subframe connectors.

Darren


exactly... that's the current plan,,  I want it upgradeable when he feels he can
If we do all your saying, he wont be able to afford to drive the car , our local jobs are avg 35 miles away.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 06, 2014, 03:05:09 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;441357
Great project for the winter!! Are going to weld in some new metal when the rust has eaten away and where the log chain incident happened?



Darren



yes, that's why we are working our way from the fire wall forward, the core support repair comes real soon.
then we move on to the rear torque boxes after the tank is out,, tidy up back there

then to trunk lid
then to door lowers

subframes are also in the plan
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 06, 2014, 03:43:08 PM
im going to have to think about what your saying on the cam though,, it has been bothering me a tad.

its not too late for this step, I would just have to gather up the MASS Air EEC,, and a paired up mass air meter with injectors.
I cant afford to build this thing only to find out he cant afford to drive it.

if we stay SD HO, yes that may be lean but an adjustable FPR might help some.

back to body work............
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 07, 2014, 06:42:20 PM
If you lean the motor to far out it can cause detonation with is no bueno for pistons.  You can combat this by retarding the timing and run premium fuel for the higher octane rating.  My 331 has an Ed Curtis custom cam, ported Edelbrock heads, ported Edelbrock lower, 11:1 compression ratio, with 42 lb/hr injectors and it makes 21 to 22 on the highway with 3.73's and a stock '93 T-5 5th gear.  City mileage is all over the place because I cannot keep my foot out of it.

With all of that said if you guys are looking to just get it running then a stock HO cam and MAF setup would be fine but the power will be way down.  I would not be able to speak on the fuel mileage but I would wonder about it as the motor would by no means be efficient which makes me wonder if the fuel mileage would be in the tank.

Do some searches on the Mustang sites and I am sure there are some peeps that have done this and then stepped the hardware up later down the road.

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on December 07, 2014, 07:55:58 PM
My opinion only, so take it as a grain of salt.

The 331 is a stroked motor. The bore remains the same. Assuming the same heads on a stock or stroked number will make the same power, just at different rpm's. The 331 will run out of breath quicker, meaning more power at lower engine speeds.

Not saying the h.o. cam is perfect, but i don't see it making a huge difference if you want a daily driver until you can save up some money. Your car also uses exponentially more fuel as rpm's increase. In my mind, all the 331 does is give you more low end torque.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 08, 2014, 07:59:20 AM
what bugs me is I "think" the pistons are still traveling down when the ho cam intake valve is closing.  same for exhaust.
I may be wrong.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 08, 2014, 10:28:34 AM
Do some searches out on the Mustang sites like the Corral or SBFTech.com and I am sure this will come up.  May be as simple as advancing the cam a few degrees.

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 08, 2014, 07:30:54 PM
here is a cam slightly better than stock... thoughts????
forgot to check the firing order on this one, ,, oops

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-308-8/


Brand:
COMP Cams


Manufacturer's Part Number:
35-308-8


Part Type:
Camshafts


Product Line:
COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Roller Camshafts


Summit Racing Part Number:
CCA-35-308-8

 


UPC:
036584017264


Cam Style:
Hydraulic roller tappet


Basic Operating RPM Range:
1,200-5,200


Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210


Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:
215


Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210 int./215 exh.


Advertised Intake Duration:
266


Advertised Exhaust Duration:
270


Advertised Duration:
266 int./270 exh.


Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 in.


Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 in.


Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 int./0.533 exh.


Lobe Separation (degrees):
114


Computer-Controlled Compatible:
Yes


Grind Number:
FW 266H-R14


Valve Springs Required:
Yes


Quantity:
Sold individually.


In-Store Pickup:
Choose In-store pick-up (OH, GA, NV) on our web site.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 08, 2014, 07:52:38 PM
Ran that cam in the 306 which first went in my Coupe so that was three motors ago. It was a great cam for that motor but not sure about a 331. You really should call Comp and have them recommend a cam. It's free and they usually can find an off the shelf cam that will fit the bill.

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 08, 2014, 08:03:31 PM
Quote from: jcassity;441425
here is a cam slightly better than stock... thoughts????
forgot to check the firing order on this one, ,, oops

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-308-8/


Brand:
COMP Cams


Manufacturer's Part Number:
35-308-8


Part Type:
Camshafts


Product Line:
COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Roller Camshafts


Summit Racing Part Number:
CCA-35-308-8

 


UPC:
036584017264


Cam Style:
Hydraulic roller tappet


Basic Operating RPM Range:
1,200-5,200


Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210


Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:
215


Duration at 050 inch Lift:
210 int./215 exh.


Advertised Intake Duration:
266


Advertised Exhaust Duration:
270


Advertised Duration:
266 int./270 exh.


Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 in.


Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 in.


Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.533 int./0.533 exh.


Lobe Separation (degrees):
114


Computer-Controlled Compatible:
Yes


Grind Number:
FW 266H-R14


Valve Springs Required:
Yes


Quantity:
Sold individually.


In-Store Pickup:
Choose In-store pick-up (OH, GA, NV) on our web site.

I'm running that cam in the 306 in my Thunderbird. With my combo it pulls to at least 5600rpm. In a 331 it would peak lower.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 09, 2014, 12:12:25 AM
yeah, im also going forged AL flat top pistons as well as milled as far as possible heads so I think your right,  Ill call comp tomorrow, Machine shop said the HO cam may be a little lean but he needs to measure it up with the pushrods coming in with the lifters and my 1.6 rockers to be sure.



thanks!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 09, 2014, 12:24:30 PM
wow,, that was a productive phone call to comp

they said to get AL heads.  They barely would even help me when I told them I want to get it rolling with the 308 rear gear until we find the right rear .... sounded kind of snotty actually.
I guess if your not spending 30 grand on your build, you aren't worth talking to.
however condescending I feel the conversation went and setting that aside, the professional at comp recommended this cam  35-518-8 (will bleed off a little pressure with more overlap.

oh well.......

time to worry sick about the right cam.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 09, 2014, 12:45:59 PM
Quote from: jcassity;441436
wow,, that was a productive phone call to comp

they said to get AL heads.  They barely would even help me when I told them I want to get it rolling with the 308 rear gear until we find the right rear .... sounded kind of snotty actually.
I guess if your not spending 30 grand on your build, you aren't worth talking to.
however condescending I feel the conversation went and setting that aside, the professional at comp recommended this cam  35-518-8 (will bleed off a little pressure with more overlap.

oh well.......

time to worry sick about the right cam.

They probably want you to do certain things to your build because it really won't make full power or run right if you don't. Realistically a 331 with iron factory heads is going to be a dog. They barely flow enough air for a 302. I gained 4-5mph and .4-.5 tenths in the quarter swapping from GT40P heads to Edelbrock Performer heads and they aren't even the best flowing aftermarket aluminum heads. That's a 40-50hp gain on a 306. The first Lightning pickups had a 351W with GT40 heads. They made 245hp. The factory iron heads are a choke on anything bigger than a 302.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 09, 2014, 01:29:46 PM
these aren't factory heads though
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 09, 2014, 02:10:43 PM
Quote
heads are from a member here
 1969 4v casting with April 29th 1972 foundry date. (requires 18mm thread plug which availability concerns me but oh well)
 302 / 71-74 / D1TZ-A,D2OE-BA / 58.2 / 1.78/1.45
 upgrades are :
 ~Ferrea 6000 valves with 1.94 Intake & 1.6 exhaust with bronze guides
 ~approc 54CC which should be as discussed around 10:1 compression
 ~Isky adjustable guide plates
 ~Cnc ported by Power Heads
 ~beehive springs with unknown seat pressure (will check this myself, desire about 110lbs
 ~3/8'' studded


They are factory heads. Even if they are ported to the max they will at most flow like a set of small aluminum heads (Edelbrock Performer/AFR 165/Twisted Wedge 170). Those small aluminum heads aren't big enough for a 331.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 09, 2014, 02:48:40 PM
You need to step back and take a hard look at what you are doing. If it were me I would find a stock 302 HO roller short block and put the heads and intake you have on it and get the car up and running. Take your time building the 331 sonit has the right parts and will build around 400 hp. This will also give your son some time to get used to the 300+ hp the 302 is going to build.

What I am saying may sting a bit but at this point it's money better spent. At a minimum you are going to need a 2-1/2" exhaust for the 331. You are also going to need a cam, heads, induction and a fuel system capable of supporting it which cost money. If you don't do this and install the 331 chances are it will vastly underperform and the 302 with the parts you currently have will out perform it.

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on December 09, 2014, 11:21:31 PM
Why would a 331 with the same parts as a 302 make less power then a 302?

It won't. It will make the same power,  at a lower rpm, while increasing increasing torque, due to the longer stroke. It's not going to hurt it because he didn't spend 2 grand on a set of heads.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 10, 2014, 12:22:57 AM
My question is why build a $2000 short block and build the same power as a $400 low mile stock 302 short block? The 302 could be sold running for enough $$$ to pay for the 331 build. Anyhow, we all have ways of doing things and this is how I would go about it.

Good luck on the build as whatever you decide will definitely put out more power than the old V6.

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on December 10, 2014, 08:42:59 PM
I agree completely. But, a cast stroker crank, even the whole kit can be relatively cheap compared to a stock build. You can get into block splitting territory without stroking or boosting a 302. I would consider a 347 for a replacement on a mild build because it would do everything, better, at lower Ron's.

I've seen quite a few mustang guys throw gt-40 heads on a stroker. Some were happy, some really weren't. Scotts heads are at least as good as gt-40's if they have had some work done, if not better.

Not gonna be earth shattering, but much better then a stock bottom end build.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 11, 2014, 10:39:36 PM
thanks guys, ever word you all say I am paying attention to very closely ,, I appreciate the ideas and it causes me to reconsider now rather than later.

we got moving on to the core support to here I will post up some pics of progress.
I am dospoogeenting some reference points others may find useful and for us when we weld back on the misc brackets to the new lower core support.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 11, 2014, 10:41:12 PM
more points to reference
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 11, 2014, 10:42:43 PM
and more, now we can cut
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 11, 2014, 10:44:37 PM
and out it comes
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 11, 2014, 10:53:52 PM
we immediately rolled right into a mock up of a new core support.
I had located various choices to suit the 2'' x 2 1/2'' hole we need to insert a new core into.
the choices seemed to offer Galvanize only in a thickness that was very suitable.  It wasn't solid tube steel but rather uni-strut like in various applications.

we chose to use 2'' x 2'' , 1/8'' thick  tube steel and fab up and work it in.

********The exact length you need to replace a core support is 5 feet off steel material,, my piece was about 15$

so here are some pics of this phase.
I took some decent notes on the material if you want to do this yourself.
find the center of your 5' material
measure 16 5/8'' to the left and right and that will meet up to the inside to inside measurement of your material you insert up into the remaining section of your core support hollow tubing.
from the new outer marks, you then transfer a 45deg bandsaw cut to remove the material so you can bend up your uprights.

we will remove two opposite sides of the uprights so that the new core support will slide up on on either side of the factory shock that is inside the frame.. that will come later.
the uprights will look like goal posts so to speak.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 11, 2014, 10:56:33 PM
continue on with more progress
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 11, 2014, 11:01:32 PM
last pic,
sorry they are out of order,, some reason the site loads them up in any order it wants.

now that its bent and fitted, chance needs to tac weld it
next will will take it out and start work on cutting out the saddle area on the uprights so the new core support extends up inside the existing car on either side of the factory bumper shock.  this will offer better support.
we expect this to be several attempts of pulling out and and regrinding because the shock is round so we want our saddle to perfectly mate to that surface offering the most contact area.

ultimately this core support will integrate a flat plate for future jacking up of the car which will come in  HANDY!  In a way I am wanting something like this for my 20th.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Lodemia on December 12, 2014, 09:04:45 AM
Nice progress, and great core support rebuild.  I love all the things painted on the bumper, including the front towards enemy - flashback to my Army days.  You should nickname yours "project claymore"

Geoff
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 12, 2014, 10:47:57 AM
that's what happens when you have a heard of teen agers with a sharpie doing nothing and a surface with nothing written on it.

I wrote the one part,, "if your reading this you must have f'd up!",, guess im just as guilty
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Drewstang on December 12, 2014, 06:00:36 PM
I got a good laugh out of the sharpie art, I plan to borrow it lol. Nice progress keep up the good work.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 12, 2014, 09:55:13 PM
Looks much more sturdy than the factory piece. What are you planning on doing for the radiator brackets? Are you fabricating new ones or transferring over the ones from the factory core support?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 12, 2014, 10:27:04 PM
i like the sharpie art also.

We plan to reuse the original brackets , that's why we dospoogeented their exact placement earlier.

here are a few pics illustrating the saddle cut outs allowing this to go deeper upright into the core frame.
the last two pics were kinda hard to get, these are the openings just to the inside of the engine bay looking down into the core support tubing.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 13, 2014, 09:35:19 PM
more progress pics

drilled through the car and new core support material twice on each side and then installed 1/2'' gold chromate carriage bolts with the head facing into the engine bay and hardware on the outside, using bellevue washers to spread out the weight of the connection point.

next we put together the mock up of the diagonal braces catching the connection point of the sway bar mount.

The diagonal steel is thinner than the 2''x2'' core support but yet strong enough to achieve our objective which is the following.
-- be able to use the front left or front right core support to jack up the car for future work
-- be able to pull this car out of a ditch or trouble by using the core support if ever that time comes.
-- be able to remove this complete assembly incase of a repair need ect, however I have noted that it offers the possibility to extract the engine out the front as well.

Note the new core support is shimmed up in areas where it was skinny, we shimmed the rear with 1/4'' steel , should be good nuf'
so here come the progress pics as of just now
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 13, 2014, 09:37:23 PM
and a couple more with a final mock up view that still needs the diagonal brace welded to the bottom left and right of the core support.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 14, 2014, 10:23:55 PM
progress pics below.
All welded up and its in its final resting spot.

We need to drill two drain holes in the bottom of the core support, we just thought about that.

We now have the tow & lift point welded in as well.  We will simply cut the bumper cover to allow it to be used.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 16, 2014, 11:02:09 PM
We decided to add a horizontal brace
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Drewstang on December 17, 2014, 06:42:16 AM
That should be demo derby proof now, lol.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 17, 2014, 03:10:18 PM
I have all of this new assembly "ahead" of the first major crumple zone so hopefully it isn't a safety issue.
the sway bar mounts are just at that point and is where our new core support rear connection is.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Drewstang on December 17, 2014, 03:22:28 PM
I doubt all the frames on the pro-touring cars I've seen lately are designed with crumple zones. I think you'll be alright lol.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 18, 2014, 04:21:51 PM
Now subframe connectors!

Your next project :)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 18, 2014, 05:29:29 PM
yes, thinking that part through as well, I don't really like the existing designs out there........... WHY THE HELL DOES OUR FLOOR PANS CHOKE OFF a straight shot from the front to the rear!!!!!!  thing needs to be offset!

Im going through the floor up front with bushings and up inside the rear tubing in the rear.


so yes that's kinda next along side of when we drop the tank to do some PM work back there.
right now we are blasting the front end.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Drewstang on December 18, 2014, 07:57:09 PM
Paycheck justification by some engineer. I don't know why they did alot of things they did on these and the Mustang frames.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 19, 2014, 02:56:26 PM
Quote from: jcassity;441743
yes, thinking that part through as well, I don't really like the existing designs out there........... WHY THE HELL DOES OUR FLOOR PANS CHOKE OFF a straight shot from the front to the rear!!!!!!  thing needs to be offset!

Im going through the floor up front with bushings and up inside the rear tubing in the rear.


so yes that's kinda next along side of when we drop the tank to do some PM work back there.
right now we are blasting the front end.

Nah. you just need some 1"x2" flat tubing. The two subframes are actually level with each other. See here: http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?31082-You-need-subframe-connectors&highlight=subframe
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 19, 2014, 03:26:07 PM
yes I understand that, the rear and front frame openings are on the same plane but the floor pan blocks off the rear opening because it dips down.
I want something to go inside each opening and to do that is to slice open the floor pan.  that we are not going to do.
something homemade will go on ,, something that makes sense hopefully without going overboard

to be honest the next most closest item I would like to fix is tossing this stupid K member for something else ,, im open to a used k member in lighter weight.
I hate how much real estate these things take up.

maybe Ill post a wanted ad
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 20, 2014, 09:55:27 PM
Progress, first coat of laquer
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 20, 2014, 10:43:34 PM
now its time to drop the gas tank out back and see whats going on back there.
empty the trunk out, and prep out the fuel pump access panel.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: V8Demon on December 20, 2014, 10:47:04 PM
Nice!  Keep at it. 

I'm getting old.  I remember the V6 rebuild on this car.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on December 20, 2014, 11:09:37 PM
This guy happened before I painted that part lol.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2014, 03:53:06 PM
Time to take care of the gas tank area
tons of sandblasting and such ,, was not too fun
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2014, 03:56:09 PM
Now it's time to dig out the trunk and find out the problem places
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2014, 04:04:20 PM
Now it's time to fill in some holes grind away some metal and rust and add fiberglass

this shot is complete on sand blasting and rust neutralizer
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2014, 05:07:30 PM
a few problem areas we need to fix.

I will say it again to *********ALL 87/88 COUGAR OWNERS
***on the passenger side of the trunk area there is an opening the factory did not seal properly.
there is a partial circle area that if you can catch in time can be sealed with silicone, otherwise, this is the reason why you have dampness in your pass side of the trunk.
this pic is up near the rear window on the pass side.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2014, 05:10:48 PM
a few more shots of holes in my project

the second pic is an illustration of the very same problem I have found on the passenger side.. the circle stamping hole is exposed allowing water to enter the car

the third pic is where I pecked in the metal to allow room for the fiber
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: turbotrav on December 28, 2014, 06:35:22 PM
Wow....quite the project.

Good luck,

Travis
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2014, 06:50:44 PM
not too bad,, It appears worse than what it could be.

so here are a few progress pics with fiberglass

I had to peck the surfaces low to come back in with fiberglass and plan in some degree of a thin layer of bondo.

the last picture is looking into the pointy out part that as a hole in it.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 28, 2014, 06:53:08 PM
here is some touch up I did with fiber to fill the passenger and driver drainage up near the back window
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 28, 2014, 10:37:19 PM
Have fun. Body work is my least favorite thing to do. Next to suspension work.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 29, 2014, 04:08:14 PM
I don't mind it,,
basically when I find an area of concern, blast off the rust then protect the metal, it makes me feel good knowing "I saved it" ~ for a little while more.

Taking things in small manageable chunks helps a lot, that way you make progress on small pieces that add up.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 29, 2014, 09:34:34 PM
progress on the tail section

first layer of bondo,, back with a second coat and should be good enough to blend with the rest of the car paint
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 29, 2014, 09:44:26 PM
sub frames started
47 3/4'' long per side
steel is 1/8'' thick, sized 1'' x 2''

passing through the front floor pan with 1/2'' carriage bolts w/ silicone on the inside and completely through the frame ,qty 2 connections up front per side

passing through the rear sub frame with 1/2'' carriage bolts and through the over lapping sub frames to connectors on the rear, qty 3 in the rear per side

this sub frame inserts into the front frame about 12'' or so and lays under the rear frame directly underneath the 2 conveniently provided 3'' spaced square holes I plan to use for the rear connection point,

the angle of the bend is 175deg even
this layout does not obstruct the Ebrake cable either.

this will come together over the next week or so.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 29, 2014, 09:51:55 PM
oh yeah,, and the trunk is re-silicone treated to all disturbed areas.
I need to use up a second tube on areas I think the factory neglected and improve the drain holes inside the trunk along the rear lower qtr panels.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on December 29, 2014, 10:21:21 PM
I'd weld those SFC's if I were you guys...if a welder was available.

Think it was Jerry (daminc) that notched his floor pans, ran his through the cuts, welded it all up, and hid it with carpet afterward. Put a bend in the tube, it's going to weaken it, no?

But then for just a street driven car, it's probably not that big of a deal, and removable if you ever want or need to.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 30, 2014, 12:20:39 AM
thought up a different plan,, welding is going to happen, it will be easier to do it that way with this new plan
the bend was required to dodge the floor pan,

also the front frames are not the same distance apart as the rear frames.
the front is wider apart than the rears, I would have assumed the opposite would be true but its not.
the rear frames are about 1'' inboard more than its respective front frame.

interesting the things you notice when you do other things that cause you to notice them.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 30, 2014, 09:48:38 AM
there will be a very very wide triangle steel plate on each side of the bent area to brace that bend
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 30, 2014, 08:01:41 PM
Time to get the fuel pump access opening done
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 30, 2014, 11:15:16 PM
Just weld in the subframes ah-la what I did. It's plenty strong. If it works fine on my Thunderbird it will be fine on your Cougar :). Just remember before welding in the subframes the weight of the car should be sitting on all four tires.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 30, 2014, 11:23:26 PM
welding in the fronts only leave the rears not welded, then when weight goes on wheels, weld up the rear then.
sound ok?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2015, 11:07:39 AM
this fuel pump access lid is kicking my ass..... trying to think "how water" swings up above the fuel tank and mitigate that possible water intrusion.
I have seen all things from gravel to dirt up on top of a fuel tank.......so..........
I am thinking that my steps this afternoon will be ok with the cover but when we install the fuel tank, there will be a piece of flashing added on the bottom so nothing can get on top of the fuel tank.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2015, 06:41:25 PM
Clips are now in place
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 01, 2015, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: jcassity;442197
welding in the fronts only leave the rears not welded, then when weight goes on wheels, weld up the rear then.
sound ok?

Maybe? I would message Jerry and see how he welded his in. I believe he did it with his car in the air so he may be able to give you some insight as to what procedure to follow. On my car they were welded in with all four wheels sitting on a drive up lift so the car's weight was on its wheels.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2015, 08:04:44 PM
I'm satisfied with this

After silicone is added and flashing on the bottom it should be okay
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2015, 08:05:53 PM
I took a couple phone calls today about subframes

My car is level right now left to right and from front to back so I don't see a real issue with it

My doors also open and close real super easy so it leads me to believe I'm already level with how the car wants to be setting

I'm moving to subframes now since I have completed the fuel tank access




If anyone else wants to give me a buzz or talk me through some problem I'm not seeing yet then give me a call at 304-772-3411
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2015, 09:07:08 PM
Primer is down

Now to decide if it goes to gloss black or truck liner
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 01, 2015, 09:59:20 PM
mine were welded with the car sitting on 4 ramps sitting normal
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2015, 10:24:56 PM
Thanks!
it just occurred to me we are starting with the same car as yours,, and it seems we are ending towards the same color and wheels...

interesting.

well, back to work, hopefully the doors and trunk get repaired after the fronts of the sub frames are nailed.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 02, 2015, 12:09:20 AM
your starting with way more car..... I'm enjoying this thread very much. keep up the good work
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on January 02, 2015, 01:00:00 AM
I think you guys just like to be alone in the garage with a Foxy ole Cougar. ;)

Scott, what's the deal in lewisburg? Sounds like some pretty crazy stuff. Two bodies in the truck, the guys shooting at cops and running..etc. Interstate whiskey deal gone sour? Or just more crazy shiznit?

Stay safe!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 02, 2015, 10:47:02 AM
outsiders dragin their  into our area,, typical
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 02, 2015, 10:58:34 AM
Quote from: daminc;442327
your starting with way more car..... I'm enjoying this thread very much. keep up the good work

all it takes is a good tolerable transmission line leak & oil pan leak to save the chassis of any car.

so...... if you don't mind, I may ping you about things Ive noticed.

-what logic was used in the fuel tank forward support brackets? the pass mount is welded and designed different from the driver side
-how did you end up offsetting your sub frames forward to aft since the rear frames are closer than the fronts?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 02, 2015, 12:39:27 PM
i know that the pass tank mount is smaller...people were saying there was a bit of an issue making the exhaust work with larger pipes, and I was trying to copy them as close as I could to the originals for looks... I'll have to go back and look at the pics
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 02, 2015, 12:42:28 PM
the subframes arent offset, they run straight to the back and I welded a bracket to the rear end of the subframe to match up to the rear frame.. they are actually partially inside of the front frames too
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 02, 2015, 12:46:48 PM
this is how they connect in the back and through the floor i used this to show that they are a full 2-1/2" offset from the front, I made a plate that welded along side the rear frame

(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee79/daminc/Cougar%20Pass%20side%20rebuild/frame%20rails%20and%20connectors/IMG_4003.jpg)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 02, 2015, 01:26:31 PM
triple checked my level again,
with a high quality wide arch sight glass 2' level, I am dead perfect left to right and front to back.

on a side note......................... this is another stupid thing I noticed last night.....

if you have your bumper cover off,
did you all notice that the bumper itself is high in the middle?
I laid my level directly down on the bumper itself and my level ever so slightly rocked left to right so I looked and sure nuff, the center of the bumper is higher.

so.....I scooted my level back a little and got a good measurement.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 02, 2015, 09:52:53 PM
Subframes drilled out
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 02, 2015, 10:24:18 PM
Now it's time to weld
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 02, 2015, 10:40:02 PM
The happy welder
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 02, 2015, 10:47:26 PM
Inside weld example
heavy welds
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 02, 2015, 11:23:24 PM
I have wrinkles in the metal on the pass side transmission tunnel.
pls don't tell me my old 3.8 did that>?

look at the last picture.. the wrinkles go way up.. wonder if that's a factory stamp out mistake or just a small issue that when the metal was squashed up to shape it, the slack  had to go somewhere.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on January 03, 2015, 10:40:15 AM
Those look like production issues but one quick way to tell is to cross measure the car and make sure it is square.

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 03, 2015, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: jcassity;442389
I have wrinkles in the metal on the pass side transmission tunnel.
pls don't tell me my old 3.8 did that>?

look at the last picture.. the wrinkles go way up.. wonder if that's a factory stamp out mistake or just a small issue that when the metal was squashed up to shape it, the slack  had to go somewhere.

I *think* both my Thunderbird and Mark VII have that same wave/wrinkle in the metal in the same area. Neither of my cars have been wreaked.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 03, 2015, 09:47:29 PM
Rears of the subframes are welded

Still need to shoehorn in some vertical plates

The trunk now has bedliner all over it except for the upper half which will get gloss black
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 04, 2015, 11:46:28 AM
boy oh boy do we have a problem.

the rustoleum bed liner stuff is not working well on vertical surfaces.  its running down the sides and leaving gray streaks showing from the primer in behind.

its pooling up where it settles.  I have no idea what went wrong.

min temp requirement is 55degF
says you can roller it on ect , prep surfaces and if needed do spot prime in areas.

says you can use the rustoleum applicator kit or a roller, I used a brush, I had a roller but the brush was going really fast.

I mixed up the stuff real good and even kept a paint stick in the can to keep mixing it up so it doesn't settle or separate.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 04, 2015, 12:17:26 PM
only time rustoleum seems to go on well is spraying through a paint gun, I've never got a decent finish using rustoleum either...well except for satin black spray can on a very hot summer day
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 04, 2015, 12:19:44 PM
paint will generally slide off a vertical surface if its to cold compared to the air temp around it.... whats the temp of the shop?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 04, 2015, 12:38:34 PM
had the garage at 70+ degF for 3hrs,, perhaps the metal was too cold still,, dono
going out now to touch up with a roller in the problem areas and then ignore it for a few days

hopefully the problem will go away on its own, otherwise I have to s it all off.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 04, 2015, 09:55:54 PM
Lots of sandblasting complete on the whole driver side
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on January 05, 2015, 12:01:55 PM
I know its a day late and a dollar short but I would have welded up the ends of the tubing you used for the sub frame connectors.

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2015, 12:35:42 PM
The tubing that goes up inside the car is open,, that end tilts uphill so to speak.
the rears are still open, there is an end cap that I can buy to pop in the tubing, friction end cap,,,  I can silicone it

I plan to drill a drain hole in the tubing somewhere towards the rear
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2015, 05:56:16 PM
Got some more cleaning done and a coat of primer on the driver side
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2015, 06:57:17 PM
I didn't realize there were so many drain holes on the rockers...
btw,, to access the tunnel in the rockers to blow them out, there is a rubber plug inside the car frame just inside the door hinge area  and down very low.

this was very handy to blow out any objects in there.

I stuffed my screw driver up inside the rocker drains and formed them just a tad larger.

I am spending a lot of time noticing the drain holes and placement to A~ see if they make sense and B~verify they are not clogged or can be clogged in the future.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2015, 08:15:45 PM
this stupid bed liner stuff is still kinda wet..  me off.
I feel like I paid 69$ for a gallon of stuff I must not be qualified to apply apparently.

if the truth be told I think it doesn't like being put down on fresh primer.... gotta call rustoleum and ask them what they can advise me on.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on January 05, 2015, 10:11:40 PM
I covered a whole truck (30' long or so straight truck freightliner) when i was a shop bitch at one of my last jobs. We had a 5 or 10 gallon bucket. We had to mix it really, really well with a paint mixer. The gritty thick stuff would settle to the bottom. If i let it sit for 2-3 hours, i had to mix it up again.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 06, 2015, 08:29:53 AM
what kind of primer are you using?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 06, 2015, 09:42:56 PM
Rustoleum sandable primer with filler

I'm using it from a spray can in the low visible areas
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 06, 2015, 09:44:29 PM
Passenger side is sandblasted completely underneath

No picture but it looks just like the Driver side
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 06, 2015, 09:46:18 PM
The bedliner stuff is starting to dry

I guess it has to do with the moisture in the air or something
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 09, 2015, 07:38:51 PM
Trunk lid time
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 09, 2015, 10:32:20 PM
you'd be better off finding another trunk lid that will never stop rusting unless you dipped it in rust desolver.
I dipped my replacement door bottoms for a week  to get rid of minor rust

I ended up cutting the entire bottom off my trunk lid, and rebuilt it in all new metal
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 09, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
trunk lid rebuild
http://s233.photobucket.com/user/daminc/library/trunk%20lid (http://"http://s233.photobucket.com/user/daminc/library/trunk%20lid")
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 10, 2015, 10:29:01 AM
yeah,, I remember that and it was impressive.

I am going to try something before tossing this trunk lid,, if it doesn't work, its 4 bolts and paint going on a replacement.

I need the body repair practice anyway.


the trunk lid got sand blasted along the interior where the outter and inner skin meet
the outside corrosion was wire wheel and sand blasted off
permatex rust neutralizer is on now and cured,, the metal all looks blackish purple.

I plan to attempt a beed of silicone on the interior of the trunk lid seam,, this will allow the factory drain holes to now be useful. the drain holes are positioned way too high up. 
on the areas where there are holes, I will lay down aluminum tape on the inside to give me a surface to lay down fiberglass on the exterior.
along the shown corroded areas, the primer, paint and a layer of bed liner can go on to help prevent future issues.... we hope.  the real answer here is how to stop the air vortex generated along the rear of the trunk lid.
I have always thought there should be a rubber round seal along the top of the tail lamps positioned so the trunk lid is air tight,, and along the license plant something else could also be thought out...

I am still considering cutting all this out like you did, that will need to be in aluminum sheet stock and rivits as I see it being more sensible.
I suppose I could lay sheet metal over the surface have now also.,, use the existing skin to shape in my new piece that wraps the outter and inner areas about 2'' up.

I cant spend too much time thinking about what I want to do, that stalls things out so I will make a choice in the next couple hours and go with it.
ive noticed that stopping to make a choice takes a lot of time... here the objective was from the beginning to repair all bad parts and hope for the best but do my due diligence in doing the best thought out repair as possible.

I think what I just said is that I am willing to accept the risk in doing the job over again later if it does not work out.
I personally think you are 100% correct though,,,,,,

I am also thinking I am putting a lot of faith in the permatex rust neutralizer stuff as well,, I tried the enviro friendly stuff and its not all its cooked up to be
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 10, 2015, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: jcassity;442659
Trunk lid time

Dumb question but how did it get rusty in the south?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 10, 2015, 03:44:02 PM
It lived it's life partially in Virginia Beach and then here in West Virginia

So now I have added sticky back aluminum tape to the inside in preparation for adding fiber glass on the outside
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 10, 2015, 03:49:14 PM
Actually the car has well over 350,000 miles on it from work road trips I have made in it since 1993 all over the eastern USA
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 10, 2015, 04:33:51 PM
Short strand fiber glasses down

Now it's time to drizzle in some tire bead sealer along the interior of the trunk lid where the two sheet-metal parts meet
This bead sealer should dry like rubber
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 10, 2015, 05:08:59 PM
Here is a shot inside the trunk where the two seams of metal meet and this is where I let the bead sealer settle
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 10, 2015, 06:31:27 PM
Driver-side undercoating is complete

Interior of trunk is painted
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jandmmustangs on January 10, 2015, 07:37:58 PM
Wow I must be slow. I just noticed the two sets of tits on the front bumper.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 10, 2015, 07:54:13 PM
yeah,, we played around with the bumper.

that bumper by the way is *NOT FLAT*  !!!

it may look flat but its microns higher in the center,, arched so to speak
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 11, 2015, 07:36:14 PM
Door time

Lots of fun trying to figure out how all the trim comes out
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 11, 2015, 07:57:54 PM
Looks to be just surface rust
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on January 11, 2015, 08:58:23 PM
Various pictures of the door. The chrome trim on the top and back sides of the window were riveted on as opposed to just using screws. I'd say it was a clearance issue.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on January 12, 2015, 12:17:21 AM
We found this mystery seam in where the trim goes. What's up with the gap?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 12, 2015, 07:48:02 AM
mine look like that too
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 12, 2015, 09:18:57 AM
well, that's just gotta go,, will figure out a way to s up the gutter work.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 14, 2015, 08:18:04 PM
Here's a pretty clean looking door
All that rust was just surface and I lucked out

There is factory caulking around the outer perimeter of the door, that stuff needs chiseled away because I found a lot of rust underneath it
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 14, 2015, 09:29:59 PM
door drain channel full of silicone now
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on January 14, 2015, 09:58:04 PM
Quote from: jandmmustangs;442742
Wow I must be slow. I just noticed the two sets of tits on the front bumper.

Just like real, natural ones...the left one is a bit bigger. ;)

(they were the first thing I noticed...lol)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 14, 2015, 10:05:24 PM
I think she is right handed
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 16, 2015, 11:31:25 PM
Like new again
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on January 17, 2015, 01:27:07 AM
Nice! Looks like a new door. :D
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 17, 2015, 11:39:13 AM
Door looks good :).
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 17, 2015, 01:15:21 PM
thank you, painting it here in a few.
then hopefully on to the passenger side door
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 17, 2015, 04:56:30 PM
Here some paint
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jandmmustangs on January 17, 2015, 05:00:48 PM
Looks good. What does the caution sign say in the top right?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 17, 2015, 05:06:42 PM
what kind of paint are you spraying?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 17, 2015, 06:02:51 PM
Lacquer

using black lacquer from my lounge thread where I posted a thread comparing different brands and quality of gloss black.

we are using this in areas **not** on the exterior so we make faster progress.  the exterior of the door shown still needs attention.

we are going to do a normal auto paint process on the exterior.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 18, 2015, 12:18:07 AM
Peelback some carpet today and found some minor corrosion so it looks like the interior has to get gutted now
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 18, 2015, 05:25:32 PM
Here's some fiberglass insulation with a manufacturer's name on it
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 18, 2015, 05:27:30 PM
Couple pictures of the interior under the carpet
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 19, 2015, 12:19:01 AM
Did that rust come from the inside (some kind of water leak into the interior)? The only reason I ask is the underside of the floor pans look better than the interior side of the floor pans.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on January 19, 2015, 07:33:45 AM
think that happens in the northern states that salt...it melts off your boots, and eats the metal from the inside out...all my vehicles look like that or worse
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 19, 2015, 12:51:23 PM
it could be true all the stuff on the shoes over the years.
I am thinking through a plastic sheet I can  heat up and mold to the interior floor , something about 1/16'' thick that is durable,, I don't really know at the moment because plastic will sweat.

The generous oil leaks I have  had from past years saved the underside

I am trying to think of something that will make the floor bullet proof for many years to come.

when you think about it ford did a good job with the adhesive sticky sheets they put down as it lasted as long as they intended.
some areas of my floor all that stuff just simply lifted off.

I am looking for heat barrier stuff to stick on the trans tunnel , that will be important.

once I sand blast, rust neutralize and prime and paint, I will naturally want to put something down.

someone was telling me about lizard skin???????

I want to invest time into something that will end up acting like a bucket so to speak to catch future moisture..like when the windows are down during the rain.. even when it means a wet/dry vac may become required when carpet cleaning time comes or for whatever reason.
This would mean the protection needs to extend over top of the lip on the very outter edge of the door opening where the door seal slips on.

maybe you guys know a solution.

I may end up making 4 separate "drop in" tubs that are made of plastic and heat gun'd to shape them into the hole they will reside.

the foam suff on the back side of my carpet now is going away,, will add something else lighter and better for pad / sound deadening.

still need to decide on a good sound deadening solution for this,, there are many things out there not so costly that will do the job,, fewer with the heat properties I need though.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on January 19, 2015, 09:43:04 PM
This is how Ford chose to hold on the exterior window trim/window gasket.


Why ththe needed this odd nut over a normal one is beyond me lol

But, we got the door out. Corrosion is worse on the passenger side (as expected) but we've determined that the door is salvageable.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 19, 2015, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: daminc;443130
think that happens in the northern states that salt...it melts off your boots, and eats the metal from the inside out...all my vehicles look like that or worse

I think that makes sense.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on January 19, 2015, 11:57:14 PM
Moisture from snow/rain gets in your floorboards, doesn't dry out, etc.

I wonder if using "brush on" bed liner would be feasible for snow belt cars? Cover the bolt holes for seat brackets and lay it down...cure it...good to go, maybe?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 20, 2015, 01:33:21 PM
im sure that would work..... I want to attempt not adding it in there yet.... don't ask me why because I cant exactly explain why I am not for it yet.... this is a confusing step.

reason I say is because the underside id different for under coat purposes... the underside has a chance in  hell of evaporating off moisture.

inside however, if water gets in on top of the bed liner,, it "may" possibly get under the bedl liner stuff before it can evap off.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on January 20, 2015, 01:52:38 PM
Good point.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 24, 2015, 09:10:07 PM
This is a couple of pictures near the seatbelt retractor mechanism
Water gets in from the outside crevice where the factory caulking has chipped and falling off and flowed on the interior of the car

yet another example of areas where the sheet metal is overlapped incorrectly.
this overlap should be the opposite of what is shown.
the forward motion of a car and oncoming water basically enables water to get in


It's a c trying to find where all the water gets in and travels
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 24, 2015, 09:15:10 PM
Since when is a ground wire orange
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 24, 2015, 11:43:35 PM
Decided I would go ahead and do spray on 3M undercoating

So here's a coat of primer
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 25, 2015, 12:07:20 AM
Undercoating is on

This is the 3M rubberized undercoating stuff

on tall can= one floor pan

so you need 4 cans to get a top layer.

I will add two more cans, 1 can for the driver front and rear, another for the pass front / rear.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 25, 2015, 09:48:55 AM
by the way,
those oval shaped plugs in the rear floor pans are not all they seem.

they are simple flat sheet metal with little tabs on the ends.

the factory caulking was rubberized something or another but when I lifted up  on them from under the car, the plug itself lifted off the area which it was supposed to be sealed.

I demo'd these out and resealed with windshield caulking.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on January 28, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
so, i found a hole near the back seat area that was suspiciously placed and shaped to allow a hinge setup. as seen in the first pic


so, i decided to make a mock up of a hinge for the back seat out of an old sign we had. the actual thing will be made of some sort of flat bar because of the clearance issues.

im going to attempt to incorporate the factory friction lock to latch the back seat. but we'll see how that goes.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on February 03, 2015, 10:33:55 PM
any water that gets past all this really deserves to be there. we've got it sealed in pretty good

also, the back "supports" for the luggage rack are removed for better trunk access. they didn't help enough to warrant keeping them imo

X
X
X
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on February 03, 2015, 11:24:51 PM
I had dreams of building a encloser for a computer into that space infront of the wheel wells when i was 16.

How do the trim panels fit around your new brackets? This is something i might just have to do on my cougar.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 04, 2015, 06:05:26 PM
I didn't show that part yet,, ooppssss.....................stay tuned.

we may have just hosed up!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: mcb82gt on February 04, 2015, 06:34:39 PM
Amazing progress, just caught up on the last 11 pages.......

I thought our subframe braces could be straight tubing, without bending it???
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on February 05, 2015, 02:08:04 AM
Quote from: mcb82gt;443925
Amazing progress, just caught up on the last 11 pages.......

I thought our subframe braces could be straight tubing, without bending it???


If you were to put said braces on top of the frame, than that might work. We bent the subframe brace for the soul purpose of sliding one end of the subframe connector into the front frame for added solidity. Doing the same on the rear frame would be impossible unless you cut into the floor pans Sadly.

Either way, I'm just happy as long as the welds hold and my subframe connectors don't snap off. And, seeing as this is just a street car, I think they'll be just fine lol.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on February 05, 2015, 02:55:47 AM
Quote from: jcassity;443921
I didn't show that part yet,, ooppssss.....................stay tuned.

we may have just hosed up!

Not trying to be mean, but i lol'd at that response.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 07, 2015, 09:39:55 PM
Quote from: mcb82gt;443925
Amazing progress, just caught up on the last 11 pages.......

I thought our subframe braces could be straight tubing, without bending it???

I guess it could if you go under on the outside up front.

what surprised me the very most was daminc saying the front and rear are directly in line with each other.  Checked my 87 coug and 87 20th
, ,,, the rears are different separation than the front.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 07, 2015, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: Haystack;443944
Not trying to be mean, but i lol'd at that response.

yeah, imagine how I felt when you landed the question in my lap!
I went,, Ummm,, well..umm.....
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on February 08, 2015, 08:13:53 PM
started sanding down the Bondo on the trunk. It's gonna need some spots filled in with a second layer of Bondi  but it's coming together.


Also, the bottom of the passenger door is in rough shape  but we have a plan to fix that. So, it's all good.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 09, 2015, 08:41:23 PM
short hair fiberglass on there now.. bondo comes later where needed.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on May 15, 2015, 10:21:33 PM
Progress has been long awaited, we know. But, with the coming of spring and warm weather, the tools no longer freeze to our hands as we work. So, it's back to it with some k memeber modifications.

Ideas or opinions?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 16, 2015, 10:52:12 AM
the first pic chance posted is to give more room for future rack / pinion access to fittings.

the last pic above is to open up clearances for exhaust and also future work on oil pan bolts / access.  there is some metal that can still come off to more or less make it look neater.

we should be making progress on a two piece oil pan soon, that's on our list as well so the motor doesn't have to come up to do an oil pan gasket.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on May 16, 2015, 12:07:41 PM
Be sure that you put a K-Member brace like the ones MM makes on the rear of your modified stock unit as you took some of the strength out of the K-Member by removing all of that material.  Basically what you removed were large gussets that gave the k-member rigidity.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/4-Point-K-Member-Brace-1982-93-Mustang-Hardtop-P810.aspx

It bolts in so easily removable when you need the access.  If you think the four point is going to be too restrictive then something like these two points would be a minimum.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Two-Point-Braces-C235.aspx

Darren
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 16, 2015, 02:36:23 PM
skinny wheels up front
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 23, 2015, 01:58:19 PM
The trunk lid finally submitted to our ways.
Notice I basically omitted the sheet metal seam that is along the bottom edge filling with fiber glass.  ON the side you might be able to go back a few pages and see how I filled in the interior gutter with bead sealer.  that worked pretty good , came out thin then dried like a rubber band.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 23, 2015, 02:05:45 PM
you may notice two big ass holes on the lower left and lower right that you don't have on your car.
that's for access to our spoiler hardware , for some reason we had to take off that much metal.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on May 25, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
Cat door is almost done. Seeing as before it looked like like a saw, I'd say we did good.

There's a few imperfections left to address, but that can be handled tomorrow lol
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on May 30, 2015, 02:14:35 PM
ITS ALIVE.... Well... Not really. But the door is done lol
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 03, 2015, 12:02:01 PM
We have been working spare hours in the evenings making slow progress on body parts and painting the undersides and such.
We drilled drain holes in our new home made core support and now are ready to mount the condenser and radiator mounting brackets to it.

Yesterday I re-enforced the sub frame connectors as shown below.
I fumbled through some spare hardware and came up with a decent solution .. see pics.
If you have to bolt in sub frames in the rear , use the big oval hole in the rear to sneak in and drop in your new bolt.  We used carriage bolts so later on if removed its easier work.
The bolts under the front seats will have the carpet cut so there is an access flap.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 03, 2015, 12:09:44 PM
a few more shots of sub frame bolting

and of course don't forget torque marking
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 03, 2015, 12:10:51 PM
last shot, rear bolting hardware

you can see the big oval hole I spoke of on the pass side, use this opening to drop in your bolt.

I know we welded but I wanted to be extra sure that if or when they break, the sub frame stays on the car.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 04, 2015, 04:47:49 PM
The bolts are extra insurance but probably not needed. If you break the welds off the subframe connectors you have bigger problems than them falling off ;).
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 05, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
core support rad & condenser supports fit tested,, painted them and they are drying now

im calculating with this lower core support im going to be putting the fan blades about 1/2'' closer to the radiator.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 05, 2015, 10:29:07 PM
cant seem to find where I put the upper condenser mounts... im confussed.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 06, 2015, 04:27:59 PM
What the heck's wrong with this picture
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 06, 2015, 04:29:22 PM
Can we say ball joint is wrong
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: tugsnipe on September 06, 2015, 11:59:01 PM
wow, a lot of hard work going into this build, one option I did not see here was take your stock HO cams to a cam shop and make it to your specs.. can any one tell me if the stock 3.8 cross member work for a V8 build, I have a 351W from a 4x4 was told the pan will work... and have the mustang 351 swap headers. so any advise would be great. look forward to see more progress here and the finished product.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on September 07, 2015, 01:01:10 PM
Scott, those are SN95 ball joints. I thought you guys were going 5 lug....

tugsnipe, the crossmember is the same for all the engines, you need mounts respective to the engine, ie, 3.8 mounts are different than the 2,3 and 5.0, etc.

The 4x4 351w pan WILL NOT work in a Fox car, I don't know who told you it would but I'd ed sure not take any more advice from them.

To put a 351w in a Fox you'll need the special pan, summit and jegs both have it. The Mustang swap headers will work, might need to get a MFH (as opposed to a BFH) to tweak the driver header a bit in regards to the steering shaft...



Scott, if you guys are keeping 4 lug stuff, you'll need to pop those ball joints and get the longer Fox ball joints. Keep those though, they're pretty new. ;)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 08, 2015, 10:26:15 AM
new ball joints in,, 
I honestly let these CA arms lay around for months now and just noticed when the spindle went on.  I purchased the CA's from here, my fault for not noticing, no biggie,

doing spring installs next, trying to get it to be a roller out the door to our painting tent next.

we cant go 5lug yet,, we got 5 lugs stuff for my oldest boys Tbird but not installed yet.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 08, 2015, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;451129
Scott, those are SN95 ball joints. I thought you guys were going 5 lug....

tugsnipe, the crossmember is the same for all the engines, you need mounts respective to the engine, ie, 3.8 mounts are different than the 2,3 and 5.0, etc.

The 4x4 351w pan WILL NOT work in a Fox car, I don't know who told you it would but I'd ed sure not take any more advice from them.

To put a 351w in a Fox you'll need the special pan, summit and jegs both have it. The Mustang swap headers will work, might need to get a MFH (as opposed to a BFH) to tweak the driver header a bit in regards to the steering shaft...



Scott, if you guys are keeping 4 lug stuff, you'll need to pop those ball joints and get the longer Fox ball joints. Keep those though, they're pretty new. ;)

I have the FRPP 03-04 Cobra replacement front control arms on my Thunderbird with the 03-04 Cobra ball joints and the stock Thunderbird spindles. How? I just took the factory spindles to a local machine shop and had them mill about 1/8" off the pad where the ball joint nut sits. I was then able to use the factory nylock nut on the ball joint. It's been like that for the past seven years with no issue. I painted a stripe on the spindle and lock nut and it hasn't moved at all in that time. It as actually cheaper than replacing the ball joint plus I got to use the nice new style low friction ball joints with no grease fittings.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 08, 2015, 01:09:45 PM
I saw that possibility to,,, nice work,  there is a significant amount of meat on the top side spindle area you mention available to sacrifice to meet the middle road of sn95 ball joints & stock.  I was falling short just as you said but 1/8'' is skinny compared to what I was seeing.  Looked more like 1/2'' yet I bet your right ,  I was guestimating 1/4'' was needed taken off the spindle mount to make the cotter pin show up correctly.  Yet that all really depends mostly on your castle nut design and such,, there are about 4 of them ive seen to choose from.
one of them is really  tall,,, then theres a shorter one.
I didn't mention it to chance though,, im not sure he would have bought off on it because he thinks structural all the time.  He has a good head on his shoulders and is skeptical by nature and understandably so when it come to his new baby he's going to end up owning.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 08, 2015, 03:19:56 PM
I only had to have about 1/8" or so removed because the factory 03-04 Cobra ball joints don't use a castle nut and cotter pin. Instead they use a nylock nut. I just had enough taken off to where 2 threads protrude above the nylock portion of the nut so the insert works. A properly tightened/torqued ball joint nut should not come loose. The nylock or cotter pin is just insurance.

If you go the machining route (which won't weaken the spindle) remember to take material off the top of the spindle where the ball joint nut sits. If it's removed from the bottom you'll have major issues. Also make sure they get everything perfectly square so the nut sits flat.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 10, 2015, 11:45:18 AM
we already swapped in the right ball joints,

moving on to fighting the springs back in.,,, proving to be a tad difficult with no motor weight in yet.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: daminc on September 10, 2015, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: jcassity;451183
we already swapped in the right ball joints,

moving on to fighting the springs back in.,,, proving to be a tad difficult with no motor weight in yet.

I had the same problem...me and the wife sat on the front frame to get the struts bolted down after the springs went in
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on September 11, 2015, 10:06:09 AM
On my Sport, I did the same thing. Pulled the motor...while I was getting my shiznit together for the HO, I tackled the front end (11" brakes at that time). Found out how bad it was to get the springs back, even with spring squeezers.

Ended up using a cable puller to compress the spring/control arm through the center so I could reattach the ball joint and even that wasn't too easy.

I swapped out the V8 springs for TC springs...not worth doing, IMO. No noticeable drop or ride difference.

Putting in some '98 GT springs brought 'er down a little. I think Vinnie used similar springs on his Sport too...


If I was ever to do it again I wouldn't ass around with used stuff. Costs more for new parts...cleaner, neater, and easier than working with JY stuff though.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on September 12, 2015, 12:53:48 AM
Well. We got the drivers side spring on... Used a ratchet strap. A spring compressor of dad's own design and my welding job. Welds held up great on the thing we made to compress the top part of the spring.

We then used a spring compressing thing we found on YouTube (washer big enough to fit in the hole the bottom of the spring goes around. Then, welded to it, a piece of angled something that dad had in one of the many bins of mystery. Worked pretty good for retaining the bottom spring)

We then compressed the spring using control arm and a comically large ratchet strap used for 18 wheeler beds to hold stuff down...

... We destroyed that ratchet strap (see attached). But it worked.. .
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on September 12, 2015, 12:53:09 PM
Lots of energy in a compressed spring. Not sure I'd trust a bit of woven cloth and some so-so metal with the possibility of serious injury.. ;)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 13, 2015, 10:18:56 PM
As far as front springs go there's some good info here: http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?38240-Front-spring-comparison
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 14, 2015, 12:57:42 PM
springs in, rack in (found a company in Indiana that has all the fox rack / pinioins you want remanuf for 69$.  struts in, strut mounts in, tie rods and end links in,  moving on to empty 21 more containers of parts on the car to roll it out for sanding.
this lets us assemble the motor with a empty bay.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: vinnietbird on September 21, 2015, 07:24:01 AM
I actually never had issues getting my springs in. Those SN-95 springs were shorter, and actually only took very minimal prying with a pry bar to get them to pop in. I haven't done any real work in a while. car funds have been non-existant.

Keep on keeping on, and those tubs will be empty soon enough. One piece at a time.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 22, 2015, 10:14:36 AM
we are using bird/coug springs,, LOL probably if I guess an easy 3 or 4 inches longer.

had to make a spring tool to get them in,, with no weight in the car/no motor its a challenge.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 22, 2015, 08:08:10 PM
I love restoring and doing the "little things" like this.....
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on October 12, 2015, 04:32:49 PM
not bad for playing around with our new paint gun.

base coat is called "infinity black".

sanding down some imperfections then hitting it again, then clear coat
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: mo2872 on October 12, 2015, 04:56:34 PM
Sweeeeet!!!!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on October 21, 2015, 09:54:12 AM
first go at clear coating,, looks like this is a good start to count on the buffing phase to final finish out the work.
This is our spoiler,, I think it came off a early 90's Camaro or something... fits real nice actually
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on January 04, 2016, 07:46:14 PM
car updates. we got the bondo work the best we could and now its paint time. the car is blacked out with the first coat after primer, primer sealer, flex agent, and paint. now it needs more black paint then a generous amount of clear coat to buff and hide any last issues we find
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on January 04, 2016, 07:47:42 PM
all blacked out
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2016, 06:22:40 PM
here are a few more leading up to paint
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2016, 06:24:21 PM
and some more
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 05, 2016, 06:25:37 PM
and more
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: ccassity on April 27, 2016, 07:01:25 PM
sorry for the lack of updates recently. took a break over " the big freeze" but im back on it now. pictures hopefully by tonight
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 02, 2016, 09:59:58 PM
I feel sorry for the poor  who ever "decides" they are gonna just strip the car down and paint  LOL.

how many layers do you figure are on that car?
we counted / sanded out like 4  LOL
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 10, 2016, 08:50:06 PM
We grafted in a 87 5.0L body harness up to the existing 3.8L v6 body harness

all done with splice work.

temp power provided to the whole car with a portable power pack jump starter and then tested 100% of all car functions that can work without the EEC connected.

all is well in the land of the coug build.

a before and after pic below
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: CougarGal on November 11, 2016, 09:44:36 AM
Loved the photos and story!!  Good luck with your lady!!

This part about the mice cracked me up!!  We moved a family of them out of my baby this summer after I caught a glimpse of one sitting up in the rear deck watching the scenery go by before it decided make the trip up front to sit in my lap!!!  I squealed.  It squealed.  Oh fun!!!  LOL    Glad I was on a 5 lane road pretty much by myself at the time!!    Mouse traps baited with peanut butter fore and aft solved the problem :O
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: vinnietbird on November 13, 2016, 09:24:19 AM
Wow. Awesome work. keep it up. more pics and updates!!!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 13, 2016, 03:49:10 PM
like the commercial says

Servepro.. like it never happened

complete and ready for plug and play.  I love how tight i was able to get the harness around the booster.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 14, 2016, 02:07:35 PM
adding our modified heater core (gusset mod)  to the car today through our firewall mod we have done a few times now.

we will make a custom cover on the fire wall as well as insulate & seal it
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 14, 2016, 09:52:20 PM
Heater core and cover in
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on November 15, 2016, 03:19:12 PM
Im really gonna do that heater core cut out one of these days.

Ive got it to the point I can swap the heater core in about 2 hours, but it takes me weeks to get all the panels back in place right and figure out where all the screws go.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 15, 2016, 04:18:20 PM
yeah,,
in our case, throttle body has to come off the car to extract the core.

not too bad of a trade imho.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 15, 2016, 10:00:27 PM
tomorrow i start doing up new brake lines

car wont go 5lug yet or anything special.

going with the copper nickle lines so it is going to be really easy.
should take me a couple days.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 16, 2016, 09:03:12 PM
rear brake lines made up.
the longer one is the rear driver side
the shorter one is the rear pass side.

all installed...

next up is the main feeder from up front to feed the back.

the old lines are in really good shape so if anyone needs them for free, let me know
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 19, 2016, 10:31:01 PM
brake lines taking a tad longer because of a problem i ran into.
also trying to think about how to re-route the rear line so its not bundled into the fuel line wad.

i think i nailed it.

update pics.

 i found an interesting little hole along the transmission mount sheet metal.
with a tad bit of wobbling out of each hole, this gives me the path i was after and staying fairly clear of exhaust pipes.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 19, 2016, 10:34:01 PM
a few more progress pics
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 19, 2016, 10:35:59 PM
and a couple more
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 22, 2016, 02:29:06 PM
all new brake lines complete,, a few pics to follow

i worked around my proportioning valve issue so all that is good now.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 22, 2016, 02:34:07 PM
a few more,,, the area around the master and prop valve took a lot of time to make it look right

I solved an age old problem by putting the master cyl lines on the side at a slight angle.
this allows you to have more swing on the bottom line fitting in the future.  Hard to explain but with your line wrench coming in from the front of the car, you can swing the line wrench and  have more room to do so.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 22, 2016, 06:19:37 PM
i solved my fuel line heat shield today.
this is aluminum unistrut off a random suv roof rack system.  chopped a 20'' long section and fab'd up some clamp back brackets to secure it.  Now i believe we are pretty safe to call the fuel lines out of the way of exhaust heat.... atleast i hope so.

for this to work best, you have to re-route the lines "over top" of the pass rear brake mounting bracket.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on November 22, 2016, 07:14:53 PM
I just used header heat wrap, worked like a champ for many years. Same stuff I use on the clutch cable with my current setup with the long tubes.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 22, 2016, 08:06:51 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;458191
I just used header heat wrap, worked like a champ for many years. Same stuff I use on the clutch cable with my current setup with the long tubes.


yeah, i saw you mentioned that on another thread ,  i couldnt figure out how to make it look neat and serve its purpose.

I dont have a roll of heat wrap either but i did have this.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on November 24, 2016, 01:36:56 PM
here is another fuel line protection mod to reduce the odds of the lines coming in contact with objects and to help prevent damage.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 03, 2016, 10:45:41 AM
i purchased this product a couple days ago and yesterday i worked through the three step process.

THis would be to add a protective interior liner to our fuel tank.

I experimented with the residual product brushing it on a few hand tools to see how durable it might be for other applications.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 04, 2016, 06:13:35 PM
I like the  Kreem product! and it works really good.
also makes a wonderful coating for hand tools as well.

bad news,, i may have to trash the tank.
its exterior is in perfect shape and i got it all cleaned up but.......

the bowl the fuel pump sits in has a metal tube that runs about 270 deg around the bowl,,, "anti-slosh module"?

anyway,, its jammed up with something i cant seem to clean out... its difficult to get to and its too much risk to accept if its not total opened up.

so,,
has anyone ever purchased the summit racing tank they say is a direct fit to our cars?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Lodemia on December 05, 2016, 08:44:45 AM
I've never bought the summit one, but I have used the ones from Amazon.  Somewhere I have a thread on it I believe. 

If you were closer, I have a new tank with new high flow fuel pump...
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 05, 2016, 02:37:59 PM
thank you,
i found one on rockauto, these tanks seem widely available yet the price spread is amazing,, well over a hundered bux spread.

i am trying to understand what i am "not" getting if i buy the 90$ tank for an 87coug on rock auto... as compared to the dorman,,, there are three avail one is 19gal while the others are 22gal.. my target is the 22gal.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 22, 2016, 04:31:00 PM
guys,,,
this is a really good gas tank!

small difference

there is no small 1/2'' tube running around the fuel pump bowl,, instead they have a 1/2'' opening at the bottom of the bowl.
the fuel pump bowl sits off the bottom of the tank about 3/16'' from what i can tell.

either way,,, all the metal matches including guage.
it came all painted as well with new rings and gaskets.

good product for less than 100$ from rock auto if you need one.  the 22gal one may require new tank straps though,,
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on December 22, 2016, 04:38:32 PM
leave it to beaver...  !!!!!!-  fuel sender update

while setting up to repair the individual circuit runs i desoldered the wire going to the circuit card.
I ended up lifting off the printed portion that bonds to the small field of resistor flush with that area.
this small area just below the wire is worth about 10ohms.
i have no where to connect my wire and to boot,,, this card i think is made of Porcelain.
it sounds almost like glass when i drop it on my esd soldering station.
I might have now screwed myself into transitioning into a universal fuel sending unit if no one has a spare.,,, in my wanted ad
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 08, 2017, 09:04:14 AM
got a new sender from summit pn 290260.  you rework its internals to read / measure resistance on the opposite side of the internal ceramic pcb.
i added the aux ground wire and extra stud.

complete write up located here
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?40003-Fuel-sending-unit-now-available-for-83-88-buttstuffog-guage-birds-amp-cougs
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 02, 2017, 10:41:11 AM
Confirmed,,
when going from a 19 to 22gal fuel tank,, as haystack said,, you do need new tank straps.

stand by for pics of fuel tank harness mod.. i made up connectors so you can unplug the sender and fuel pump before taking the straps off.

this adds another point of connection but it allows you to have another point to unplug and troubleshoot if needed.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 06, 2017, 10:35:32 AM
fuel tank work & mods:

22gal fuel tank- Rock Auto FTK010098
22gal Fuel tank straps- Rock Auto FST010088
Summit racing sender 290260 reworked internally to meet the buttstuffog guage requirements
fuel pump disconnect connector
fuel sending unit disconnect connector
fuel pump #14 aux ground Rhh/Rhw
fuel sender #14 aux ground Rhh/Rhw
fuel tank brass aux ground stud w/ SS hdwr
Fuel tank bond to chassis #8 thhn/thwn

On the fuel sender, i noticed having the exposed yellow stud may be bad.  The possibility exists that an object could in the future be placed in the trunk and sag the metal downward and possibly make the trunk bottom touch this stud.  I recycled an old spark plug boot and made a protective boot to help prevent this from happening.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 06, 2017, 05:29:38 PM
ok,, so apparently im not allowed to have fuel tank straps that fit 22gal.

working with rock auto now,, seems they shipped me the straps that are for a 19gal tank.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 29, 2017, 12:03:19 PM
looking or opinions here on a product someone has purchased that grinds rings in a controlled manner.

My new SRP rings are currently gapping at less than .001 and my piston specs demand min .018 for the top ring.

so,, has anyone bought a simple hand crank style grinder and used it and liked it or what ?

I have to do all 16 of them.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 29, 2017, 08:58:01 PM
Also,
Draw your attention to the two oil ports on the main journals.

I asked to have the block line bored and wondered if i should do some additional work on an area i noticed.

on jounals usually you see a "jumper" groove to join the two ports.

on my journal 1 and 5 there is none.

on journal 2, 3 & 4 you can barely make a joining groove out.

should i grind in a groove to join the two ports?

I think during the line bore process, he (machine shop) must have forgotten to do this.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on May 30, 2017, 07:19:34 AM
You are in over my head.

I was gonna rip my motor apart this week and see if it is still salvageable. I can't imagine ford putting grooves in for no reason, but i would call the machine shop. I
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on May 30, 2017, 11:24:20 AM
Call the machine shop. If it was an oversight on their part they should correct the issue.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 30, 2017, 01:27:22 PM
Ok,
I am still just wondering / asking if the bridge / groove is really needed or not.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 30, 2017, 02:02:34 PM
nevermind,, i feel stupid,, the groove isnt needed.  after the main is placed, the groove is re-created by way of the bearing itself..

false alarm
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 02, 2017, 09:35:30 PM
this is a decent ring grinder.

you have to do the mod to it did to get rid of the excess side to side play.,, grind a slot and add a keeper or snap ring or something.


I especially find it easier to gind only one side of the ring instead of both at the same time.

work turned out very consistent which was what i was after.  i had to take a lot of ring away as i had overlap out of the box.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 03, 2017, 06:43:59 PM
darn it!
broke a compression ring,, the lower one for cyl 7.

the parts stores dont seem to carry compression rings.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 03, 2017, 09:21:39 PM
started loading up pistons and paying attention to the ARP instructions on rod torque,, seems they go to the max with a lubricated bolt, calling out 45ft/lbs on the rods.

so far mains and rods all coming in at .0015 clearances.  my thrust bearing seems kinda skinny, crank has a tiny smidge of side to side play, something rediculously small in value.  i totally forgot to measure it prior to pistons.

anyone got a spare 30 over compression ring?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 03, 2017, 09:48:33 PM
What brand of rings did you use?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 03, 2017, 10:03:47 PM
these gents here in the USA

http://liberty-engine-parts.com/

most of thier stuff is made here, few off s.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 04, 2017, 02:32:09 PM
my attempt at a camfer on the tops of the cylinders.  I was going to make a cone tool then it occured to me that if i trap the cylinder hone stones at a certain pitch with painters tape, that will allow me to trasfer that profile to the individual bores.
seems to have worked out ok

in short order you will see you are going to use up your stones ,,, this is all i had lying around that would get me past this step quickly , evenly and in a mechanically sound way.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 04, 2017, 07:40:25 PM
pistons went in much easier now.
I'm one fry short of a happy meal till i figure out where i am going to get one single compression ring from.

i was surprised i had no block conflicts with the 331 kit,, some people say they had to grind away parts of the block or crank to clear rotating parts.

all clear here.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 05, 2017, 03:17:04 PM
got me a .045 over 4'' lower ring, will grind it down and set it up for cyl 7 then have all 8 in place
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 08, 2017, 10:18:15 AM
Tech help please

See attached two pictures so you can get your head around the the final question I have..

-heads without HG mocked up on block
-Cyl #1 at TDC
-dial indicator set up w/ magnetic base as shown
-I am physically hitting the top of the piston with my INT valve at .217’’


Cam info (stock ford HO cam) for 86-88 fox bodies
-INT valve lobe base circle is 1.440’’
-int valve base to top of lobe is 1.718’’
I subtract the two values above and arrive at the max lobe height as .278

Lifter Info
-better than stock “by design” regular Hyd roller lifters.

Will my PTV clearances be fine?
How much travel does a stock hyd lifter use up internally before its mechanical effort finally starts to move the valve down?
I cant remember the seat pressure on the valve springs but I am certain they exceed 130lbs
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 08, 2017, 11:22:48 AM
I usually just use a piece of clay. Seems like a complicated setup to me.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: bodyman on June 08, 2017, 12:38:33 PM
I'm no engine guy, but the few times I have done this I have the cam, pushrods, and rockers installed and use a solid mock up lifter to check the piston to valve clearance. Maybe the advertised cam lift is what you are basing this on but not sure if that translates to exact numbers depending on the rocker ratio etc????
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 08, 2017, 12:47:07 PM
no timing gears in so its all pretty simple with a magnetic dial indicator base.

i know my process for  what the overall clearance is.. is different because im not using a degree wheel.

how much do i subtract for the lifter loss?
the lifter will collapse an amount before it actually opens the valve.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: bodyman on June 08, 2017, 01:53:23 PM
I think so on the degree wheel. I don't think the valve would be at full lift when the piston is at tdc. The question is where would the piston be when the valve is at full lift, hence the mock up with the cam, pushrods, rocker arms, etc that you are going to use. I also used clay to check the clearance with this method. Not sure I would subtract anything for lifter loss. If it were me, I would do the full mock up. Hopefully someone with more engine building experience will chime in.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on June 08, 2017, 09:18:29 PM
Take an old lifter and gut it. There are instructions on sbftech.


http://sbftech.com/index.php?topic=57.0
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 11, 2017, 10:37:31 PM
clay without head gasket says .068''.

now i gotta find a woodruff key for my crank, seems like scat assumes you dont need a new one.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 11, 2017, 10:42:09 PM
is there an option for slightly taller than stock valve covers for the 5.0L?

i dont want to use the ford racing ones i have because they are too tall.


i am going to have to have .25'' cut off my roller rocker retainer nut to shorten the hight profile.
if i cut the retainer nuts,, the stock valve covers will clear with a very very thick vc gasket perhaps.
maybe i will use two gaskets or an adaptor of some sorts meant to cure this issue when running studed heads.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 12, 2017, 02:15:15 PM
I run these: https://lmr.com/item/M6000C302/86-93-Mustang-50L-Ford-Racing-Black-Cobra-Valve-Covers

They clear roller rockers and fit under a stock style upper intake.

You can run stock cast aluminum HO valve covers and roller rockers by grinding the casting bosses off on the inside.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 13, 2017, 09:53:20 AM
thanks, before new, will try used if anyone has any as i have posted in the wanted ads.

i have several listings in there for stuff if someone wants to get some $
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 15, 2017, 02:54:27 PM
took apart the heads and replaced seals and cleaned up valves / seats.  lots of rich looking crud but all is well now.
intake guide on #7 offeres little reistance suction wise when i pull on the valve and cover the guide opening on the other end but.... it feels ok and tight so im gonna let it go for now.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 15, 2017, 02:57:38 PM
better than stock roller lifters shown.
new timing set in.
heads all down and torque marked.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 15, 2017, 03:03:10 PM
here is my rocker arm lock nuts i picked to lower thier overall profile.  they came to me for 49$ shipped.
made sure to get the pn for you all, they call out specific text for using stock covers.
Not actually true i my case, unless i land some cobra covers or confirm the HO covers are actually taller.... but........... with double valve cover gaskets this hardware pack will work with the regular oem stock plain black covers.  Fit tested yesterday and this solution works.

i also show a side by side illustration of overall length.
my new lock nut solution is also more skinny than the lock nuts that came with this "UNKNOWN BRAND" set of roller rockers.  They have no pn and the roller bearing is the only thing stamped with a pn and also says made in usa.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 15, 2017, 03:05:22 PM
here i show the original lock nut with the roller 1.6's,, and the replacement lock nut simulating them installed and preloaded.

see the difference?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 15, 2017, 03:13:17 PM
purchased a new Pioneer timing cover "SET".
lesson learned,,
if you pick the "SET" from autozone you get this cover.
If you pick the "COVER ONLY" you get a modern 87/88 version or closely matching Explorer style.

having said that, the older style gives you access for an optional mechanical fuel pump.


what i am having trouble understanding is this...
the old style timing cover which has provisions for a crank sensor and such if you look at the cover behind where the timing marker would mount, there is a 1/4'' hole.
the kit gives me two freeze plugs... one to cap off this hole.

the only people here who would know what that hole is actually for would be able to answer because i am betting its an 83' application/provision for something.

what is it for????


as you an see the plug and my install tool are ready to go but if i can make use of this i would like to.

i am thinking it was a port for access to the oil to provide oil temp???????
I am guessing and betting it was an 83, or perhaps even a Box Fox application ...
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 15, 2017, 10:38:39 PM
installed that tiny freeze plug,, hope someone can reply on that earlier post of mine.

got the timing cover and water pump in.

installed and preloaded all the rockers , they should be really close.

i added 1/4'' turn after the pushrod started to have friction with each pair on the base circle of the cam.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on June 15, 2017, 11:00:32 PM
I think I might have seen some (really)old Windsor engines with the dipstick tube there.  Front sump maybe?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 16, 2017, 11:18:33 AM
i was going to say something about that but since ive never seen it before other than my 84 when i was in the navy, today i look back and i figured it was a hack job from the repair done prior to my buying it.

I remember specifically / repeatedly always checking my oil by walking up to the front of the car and slightly to the passanger side, up front on the engine was the dip stick tube.

back then i thougth that was the way it was,, but when you mention what you said, makes me scratch my head even more.  that car was a 3.8L.

now that i know a tad more,  its a risky area to depend on oil level readings in that area of the pan, perhaps it was a  modified dip stick.

we do here have a very lenghty thread about dip stick differences for the 5.0L , i think we all found that there are three different ones.. all marked totally out of wack when side by side.

the thread is in engine tech somewhere called "dip stick differences"
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on June 16, 2017, 11:58:30 AM
The early Windsor engines were almost all front sump, and with a front sump, that dipstick tube location would make sense.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 16, 2017, 10:35:21 PM
got a couple more things done

harmonic cleaned up painted and new balancer installed.

set up the oil filter adaptor that has three output fittings for misc use.

then my oil pump strainer came in,, so i did up the oil pan and prepared it to go on tomorrow.

i mocked up the valve covers ,, i dont like it even double gasket,  i really need to find a set of slightly taller covers or just buy those cobra ones.

if i get a set of those cobra overs, then i will have to get two because my other son will be seven differnt kinds of "BUT DAD!!!!!"
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 18, 2017, 08:33:50 AM
these headers look just like what i "thought" was my idea only..... and apparently someone else was thinking the same thing.
http://www.jamesoaksenterprises.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=40_164_166&products_id=596
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 18, 2017, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;461409
The early Windsor engines were almost all front sump, and with a front sump, that dipstick tube location would make sense.

AFAIK till '78 all Ford passenger car engines were front sump... 1978 is when Fairmont was introduced, from that point everything transitioned to rear...
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 18, 2017, 12:05:38 PM
just seeing what it will look like. got the oil pan on & pump, and other  things.
gotta separate all those parts on top to check for any possible derbis and re-gasket as needed.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 18, 2017, 09:59:11 PM
this is something thats always urked me a tad.
so.. does anyone know (other than ford 289cid) an intake gasket that solves the excessive opening on the water jackets of the heads.
adding a big goop of silicon along the edge can be done but its a weak spot.

i payed attention again and with this gasket, the outter perferation is not sitting on the head, but off to the edge.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 18, 2017, 10:03:44 PM
got the valve covers on.
omitted the baffle,, who needs a stinkin baffle anyway.

i used the explorer metal gasket and stuck it to the head with high temp gasket silicone.  Next i put on without silicone the cork gasket.

seems to be working,, i settled lets call it.

cleaned up , corrosion treated and then painted them with VHT flame proof stuff like everywhere else on the motor.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 19, 2017, 10:28:01 PM
Quote from: jcassity;461471
this is something thats always urked me a tad.
so.. does anyone know (other than ford 289cid) an intake gasket that solves the excessive opening on the water jackets of the heads.
adding a big goop of silicon along the edge can be done but its a weak spot.

i payed attention again and with this gasket, the outter perferation is not sitting on the head, but off to the edge.

Scott, is there a blurb on gasket saying Head Side? Gasket appears to be wrong side out...

At least going by the Fel-Pro I have on hand...

(https://s24.postimg.org/q5wj3u42t/felprosmallblockintake.jpg)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 19, 2017, 11:53:34 PM
I used Fel-Pro intake gaskets for a 93-95 Cobra and 96-01 Explorer 5.0 on my engine (same port opening as a 1250). I put them on dry. No coolant leaks. When I pulled the GT40 intake off two years ago to swap the Performer RPM intake on the gasket hadn't leaked at all. So on went the same gaskets installed the same way with the Performer RPM intake.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 20, 2017, 09:58:48 AM
the intake gasket set works fine with GT40 heads.

with these D20E heads,, the gasket isnt working right.

I have a mr gasket set coming in today that seems to address a wide variety of water jacket differences from various heads.
pics coming.

maybe i should have asked for 69-72 torino / econoline intake gaskets for perhaps a 351M??
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 20, 2017, 10:50:12 AM
Quote from: jcassity;461503
the intake gasket set works fine with GT40 heads.

with these D20E heads,, the gasket isnt working right.

I have a mr gasket set coming in today that seems to address a wide variety of water jacket differences from various heads.
pics coming.

maybe i should have asked for 69-72 torino / econoline intake gaskets for perhaps a 351M??
Do you mean 351W?? The M engines didn't exist till '75... 351M gaskets are nothing like a Windsor, those are basically a tall deck Cleveland with a big block bellhousing pattern... Nothing more than a 351C built in a 400 block, cheaper to cast one block for both engines...

The head my gasket is pictured on is a D8 from my original Comet engine... Someone had swapped it's heads, originally it probably had D2 or maybe D3 as it's a very late '72... The intake is D3 and is no doubt orig...
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 20, 2017, 01:06:02 PM
Yes,,W,, sorry.  these are those 69 Windsor heads used from i guess 69 up to 72.,, not sure what i was thinking there with the 400

so... this is much better....  Felpro 1250 set

all i do is cut away that extra stud hole opening on the water jacket port.. or leave it cause it really wont matter i guess.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 20, 2017, 02:09:29 PM
Those FP 1250 are same ones that come in a small block Trick flow gasket set... They are what's on my 331...
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 20, 2017, 04:52:58 PM
The 1250s are paper and leak eventually, even with RTV around the water ports. This gasket is what I run: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ms95952

Same size as the 1250 but it's steel core with graphite on either side, plus the nice blue rubber end seals. Never gonna leak, bolts right up. Don't worry if the water ports on the MS95952 gasket are bigger than what's on your heads (they are bigger than the water ports on the Edelbrock Performers I run). They aren't going to leak. Trust me :D.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 22, 2017, 08:05:54 PM
but............. I Cant do that gasket at all man,,,
the water port overhangs past the head.

the only way i can run that gasket is to silicone the heck out of the edge and it will prob blow out with presure sooner than later.

the far left and far right edge of the gasket ,, the indent into the gasket is hanging out over the edge of the head.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 22, 2017, 09:21:00 PM
Try these: https://m.summitracing.com/parts/fel-ms90116?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-fel-pro&gclid=CJz7gq_m0tQCFYo7gQodkc4AoQ

For a 69 351W.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 22, 2017, 10:42:24 PM
yeah, been looking at 69 351 stuff for the heads,, and these showed up.  the newest ones i got are paper like you said and that makes me sorta not want to use them.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 22, 2017, 11:06:50 PM
Those Fel-Pro gaskets for a 69 351W should work and are not paper like the 1250 gasket is. Just use some RTV in place of the end seals, since the 351W end seals are wider.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 23, 2017, 10:47:42 PM
one last pass on fit verification of valve covers before they go on.
i laid a piece of 1'' wide x about 2' long tin foil along the top of the rocker nuts.  put the one valve cover on that has the oil kneck.
I fed the slack on the tin foil out the oil kneck then added and tightened up the valve cover bolts.  I pulled on the tin foil and "if" it binds or breaks then i am touching rocker nuts to valve cover.

It pulled out easy as pie.

second test ,, spray painted a band along the inside of the cover, added bolts and tightened like normal.  If the rocker nuts touch then paint band will be damaged.
no damage to paint,, so all this checking is saying that as along as the steel explorer gasket PLUS a normal cork gasket it used, the covers are tall enough.

I ended up removing all the pokey up stuff on the covers i didnt want anymore.  those spark plug metal parts are just stupid and get in the way.

a couple pics....
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 23, 2017, 10:54:46 PM
started pondering the reasons why a power steering pump tends to be such a negleted item in our cars... then it occured to me.
They are such a PITA to deal with.
I made some mods to encourage my son to not have the same trouble with them like what we are given in OEM stock form.

The objective is to be able to drop out the entire pump and pully together out of the car without much headache.

this calls for a change to the mount and to the associated hardware.

first the mods to the mount.

I cleaned up a used JY low miles pump and used it as my mock up.  I have a brand new pump on standby but this mock up pump will become a spare.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 23, 2017, 10:57:12 PM
I bought the tool to take off the pully, then realized i had to make a pully installer so this is my solve... works fine.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 23, 2017, 11:07:15 PM
now i need to mount the pump but not damage anything about the original design & application.
If for some reason its needed that the original bolts need to go back in, that design is preserved.

solution is grade 8 shanked bolts just a tad smaller than the threaded portion on the pump itself.

I have to build out the hardware so it installs the opposite of OEM.  This will solve the problem of removal in conjunction with the bracket mod.

the hardware needs to pass through the threaded holes on the pump itself and stick out just enough to add a thread locked nut.

The hardware needs to come out easily in the future.

I met all these needs with the solutions in the pics.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 23, 2017, 11:10:13 PM
a few more pics of power steering pump mount mod done.

now in the future, the nuts can be removed and the hardware which are self correcting so to speak will easily pop out the back.  the pump with pully will drop out the opening after the two hoses are also removed.

just as an FYI...  you **********DO NOT****** keep advancing your pully installer until the pully is all the way up the pump shaft.

you the installer must decide when the pully is oriented correctly to align with the other roundy rounds & the belt.

there is no "stop" on the pump shaft.

suggestion to "know when to stop pressing the pully on....
measure the distance between the mount and the back edge of the pully.

duplicate that distance when the pully is put back on.

I have no idea why this pully is pressed on, there has to be an engineering purpose for it.
to be honest , im not sure why there isnt a hole drilled through the pully ring & shaft completely.  This way a roll pin could be simply hammered in to keep things happy.  The pump shaft could be now a ten thousanth skinner to allow the the pully to be tapped on with minor effort and a roll pin installed.  Maybe the engineers didnt want hammershiznitting the pump.. yeah i think thats it.

Even better would be to Key Way the shaft then add a nut / washer on the front to keep the keyway in place.  It would probably have to be reverse thread like that stupid tensioner pully bolt !
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 23, 2017, 11:58:57 PM
Maybe i should make a steel ring to brace the front of the mount,,, just incase i want to insure the mount doesnt twist...or pehaps im over thinking it.
a steel ring would be ideal though...  maybe ill do that.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 27, 2017, 01:21:51 PM
A pump pulley puller is easy enough to find/use. I don't really see the need for this, but that's just me.

You're over thinking the heck out of this ;)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 27, 2017, 07:25:03 PM
Not gonna knock looking at something differently but I too would have just put it together like factory. Nothing like making a better mousetrap though. Good work on the valve covers.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 28, 2017, 03:55:17 PM
I know,, i know,, over thinking is a bad thing sometimes.  Thanks though.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 28, 2017, 03:59:11 PM
I dont see any issues with these headers i got from summit.  I may get heat wrap for the headers though, id rather wrap them if i need to be i likely will not being how i plan to dress the driver side wiring harness.

also, got the "re" replacement intake gaskets , glad i did.  these are what i feel more comfortable installing.

now i can take the intake apart and clean it up,, and inspect, clean and replace the injector screens.

oops............. seems ive forgotten to obtain a fuel pres regulator,, thinking adjustable might be the way to go ,, maybe stock would be fine as well if there are opinions...........
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 28, 2017, 05:49:15 PM
Those gaskets should work great. Just cut the little tab out of the coolant passage and you're good to go.

I'd just get a stock replacement Motorcraft fuel pressure regulator. Even with all the stuff I've done to my car I run a stock replacement Motorcraft fuel pressure regulator.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 28, 2017, 07:37:53 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;461631
Those gaskets should work great. Just cut the little tab out of the coolant passage and you're good to go.

I'd just get a stock replacement Motorcraft fuel pressure regulator. Even with all the stuff I've done to my car I run a stock replacement Motorcraft fuel pressure regulator.


with a 331 & 030 over bore,, i have to find out how to calculate the very "leanest" fuel needs.

i cant see why yet a stock vac operated FPR would be an issue but it may ,, dono...........

i can keep the car speed density or go mass air.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on June 28, 2017, 07:49:36 PM
Either way, with a 331 and the fuel system to support it, it'll need tuned to get the best performance/drivability...
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on June 28, 2017, 09:10:30 PM
Quote from: jcassity;461632
with a 331 & 030 over bore

With a 3¼" stroker crank the engine is 331cu in because of the .030 overbore... With std bore it'd be a 327(or the combo Chebby used for years)... Actually 326.7264cu in but admittedly that's splitting hairs...
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 29, 2017, 02:21:03 PM
^ thats why we had the .030 bore done,, so it actually matches 331 tom.

thank you all!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on June 29, 2017, 04:22:22 PM
Quote from: jcassity;461632
with a 331 & 030 over bore,, i have to find out how to calculate the very "leanest" fuel needs.

i cant see why yet a stock vac operated FPR would be an issue but it may ,, dono...........

i can keep the car speed density or go mass air.


FRPP has a safe hp estimate for fuel injectors based on HP. I've attached it. If you have a horsepower guess this should be a helpful guide.

I run 30lb injectors. The injectors are on the large side but I'm not worried about running out of fuel under any conditions in my combination.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 30, 2017, 09:04:02 AM
minor progress, got engine pulling brackets made and installed.. needs paint now.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 30, 2017, 09:09:37 AM
hopefully next i can get to buy a floor shifter transmission linkage ,, that part is holding me up right now from setting the power plant.
most everything else is down hill from here.. all the clean but tedious work of adding all the things that make this a car.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 06, 2018, 11:20:48 AM
i took to the transmission the past couple days piddling around.
took off the over to change the filter and found what appears to be grit like sand.  not sure what to think..... sand has no reason to be in here...

also found small particles of metal , color of fluid in the pan is questionable but from what i understand this is the first time the trans has had a filter change since its upgrade and rebuild.  I will take a chance on it and move forward with stuffing it in the car.  i laid the trans on its side and sprayed parts cleaner everywhere i could to flush out any .

I was very disappointed to find this, but, it is what it is.

what it boils down to is that all this stuff was in the bottom of the pan till i flipped it upside down, probably brought this on myself by flipping the darn thing over!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 06, 2018, 11:27:01 AM
moved on to doing a drain plug mod in the pan.
use a product called a jack nut.
next integrate jb weld as needed treating the weld like you would silicone in areas  where it will mate to the bottom.


The area i show is really the only safe place to add a protruding bolt. 
Its location ends up  being on the rear corner of the drivers side of the pan where there are no overhead conflicts.

drill hole
find a washer the jack nut will slip into
add jb weld to the washer and jack nut & washer to pan
drop in the jack nut with washer
insert a bolt and tighten to collapse the jack nut completely down.
remove bolt and convert the bolt to your plug.

eventually i will move on to making my gasket, re-bevel the mounting holes with a ball pin hammer, then clean the pan, rust neutralize and paint, then bake the paint on my wood burner here in the garage.  that VHT paint has baking instructions.. heat for 30min , cool, re-bake then cool then rebake. 

I will heat it up, then take it outside and drop it in the snow to shock it.  apparently you gotta temper the paint this way.  Never done this before so I'll see how it goes.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 06, 2018, 11:29:37 AM
here is the plug.
a simple bolt, lock washer, stainless steel captive washer then an old fuel injector o-ring.

should be fine, this works on my 20th real well for many many miles now.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 06, 2018, 12:04:18 PM
moving on to transmission floor shift linkages. reading up on eric's info and came to an interesting conclusion.

in most instructions when converting your aod from column shift to floor shift, its said you can flip your shift bracket from pointing "UP" (column) to pointing "DOWN" for floor shift.

I am not sure if i totally agree or not, im not an expert but i do see a problem in doing so. 
the column shift bracket is bent offset inboard towards the transmission.
if you flip your existing bracket down for floor shift, it will still remain offset bent inboard but now "wraps" under your transmission pan.

i cant say it wont work but what i do know is that if you reuse your shift bracket and flip it down, the transmission pan will be harder to take off because the shift linkage is in the way.  the last resort solution i could have done is band saw off the offset of my existing bracket, flip the chunk of metal 180deg then weld it.  doing this will offset your column shift bracket outboard **BUT** the distance will not be as generous as the oem style.  you could easily just fabricate up a new offset and then drill a hole to match the plastic bushing diameter then weld.  either way just a thought.

the correct bracket for floor shift is bent offset "outboard" and so to that point i will swap in the correct part....

note- the metal on a proper floor shift bracket is about one more gauge thicker than a column shift bracket,, !!  not sure why.

i will try to show this in some following pictures while i change out this part.
Everything was easy to do, all you have to do is shift your trans to all the way down to "1" and you can get your wrench in there easy.
i had to hold the shift lever with another tool to loosen the nut.
took maybe 30 minutes to swap this out.
the keeper pin is really the hardest part but side cutters used as a pry bar so to speak and gentle pry technique works fine.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 06, 2018, 12:07:23 PM
and more, hope pics speak for themselves.

the first picture in this post should illustrate the final product result.

not shown is a very important bracket that attaches your TV cable to the transmission bell housing.  Mine is attached to my cable right now and i dont see a reason to install it on the trans until the cable is attached later.

~speculation only~ if you are a CFI 5.0 then i think from what the shop manual is saying, you keep your "Column shift TV LINK".
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 02:29:23 PM
added my plug and high power magnets near the drain plug.
put some wheels on the transmission so when i flip it over i can roll it into place.  I'm working by myself.

added my double hump cross member the also added a thick chunk of metal "uni-strut splice bar" to span under the two nuts that bolt to the member.
I never really like how small of a surface area the nuts made to the cross member and thougth adding this would help spread the load better.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 02:53:45 PM
decided to go with a full length center console and stepping through the fitment of the aod floor shifter.

i asked a few questions a couple years ago about the post eric has on coolcats.net under modifying, there is a pdf to download which is a template to cut out your opening. 
the template illustrates somewhat of a plus sign you cut out.  I printed it out on 8 1/2'' x 11'' paper and laid it out.  i called my son and asked him for some measurements.  The start point of where you measure on the template does not state if its "with" or without the dash trim installed..... this seemed to matter a lot so i started from scratch but the template has served to be a perfect tool to use anyway.

i discovered the only reason to have the top and bottome "cut outs" of the plus sign is so that you can slip on your clips to integrate an oval hole so these clips can move left to right. 
I confirmed this by taking off the rubber gasket from the bottom of the shifter.  the indent that was left behind in the gasket spoke to me and told me about how it lived most of its life.

I cut out the Plus sign out of erics template and laid it on the gasket which normally would be on the transmission tunnel.  The oddly shaped plus sign matches the indent on the gasket perfectly.  This also told me the exact orientation of the four tunnel bolt clips and thier orientation.

I also learned that the most imporant part of erics modifying post on coolcats.net is the one picture showing clip placement.  Up near the dash there are two clips.  the person who cut out the oval holes for the two front clips landed them directly in two factory creases.

these two creases are all that matters if you plan to put in a floor shifter.  If you locate these two detents in the tunnel, that tells you exactly "where you start".
Next you lay the template on the tunnel and follow the instructions. 
what is in error on my car is the distance from the plus sign down to the side impact brace referenced as the "hump".  these distances dont match but who cares.
the front two detents on your tunnel will tell you where to "start".

Second thing..........
If your an AOD or a stick,,, you really dont need to cut out a plus sign at all. the hole can be much smaller if you fab up a way to omit the tunel mount clips for a bracket that allows your bolt to slip left to right.
for an AOD, the hole can be a simple 1/2'' side by 2'' long "slot" and enough room to allow for the cable bracket as well.  I would say if this option is chosen, the opening would be "L shaped to allow the shifter to just drop in. 
for the sake of nothing more than staying in line with oem design, i am cutting out the plus sign shape.

I am not going to use the oem floor shifter cover.  I am going to use the "tray" type part and let the shifter indicator cover pertured out of the cover.  this give my youngest boy chance a place to put small things in the tray.

another thing i noticed which i will not do on this car cause its his,,, but what i found interesting is.........
you could omit the ash tray and the front piece of plastic brace.
you could then slide your shifter back all the way "into" the opening that used to occupy the ash tray.
what this does is allow you to omit the dash cig lighter area and either add a storage cubby or the pop out drink holder like in the tarus. 

chance says he doesnt want the shifter moved back to allow for a drink holder but does want a tray up front with the shifter sitting in it so to speak.

here is the rear tunnel bracket we had to make that allows the rear of the console to bolt in.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 02:55:00 PM
here is the full length console we are going with
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 02:57:16 PM
here is the plus sign i cut out and saved, compared it to the shifter gasket that had an impression on it of being bolted into another floor shift car from the factory.
the paper cut out matched the profile of the factory opening nearly perfectly.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 03:01:50 PM
here in the left you can see my fit testing the shifter indicator down into a tray.  it fits nice.
i will ultimatly end up cutting out a hole in the tray to allow chance to have both the tray and the shifter indicator to occupy the same space.

i am thinking i want the shifter to pertured out into the tray by about 1/2''.

since our cars with column shift did not come with a transmission tunnel adapator for a floor shifter, i am useing my lower mounting profile to my advantage to integrate a storage tray instead of shimming upwards the shifter assembly.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 03:07:30 PM
here i show the center console mocked up where it needs to be then the shift indicator sits atop erics template.

the shifter indicator has four mouting holes  so i use a wire to pop holes into erics template passing through the shift indicator mounting points.

this tells me the orientation of the shifter indicator as related to the shifter opening under it.
all seems well so far.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 03:09:25 PM
more shifter indicator to template orientation.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 03:11:54 PM
see, once i orient the shifter indicator to the template, then the template to the metal bottom plate, this confirmed that the two forward most "thumb" sized detents in the transmission tunnel were infact the correct location to install transmission tunnel adjustable clips.

again, all you need to know is where to place the two front clilps and the rest just falls into place.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 03:22:17 PM
here are the forward most transmissioin tunnel detents i spoke of that match up perfectly to where you install two front tunnel mounting clips.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 03:25:18 PM
again, the only purpuse the upper and lower part of the plus sign serve is to give you the ablity to insert tunnel mounting clips.
i have a plan that i was going to do to reduce the actual hole size need then it occured to me that my idea is  not compatible with a 5speed upgrade if chance wants to do that later... so i stay with the oem plan and begin cutting now.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: EricCoolCats on February 11, 2018, 05:51:49 PM
Looks great Scott! Glad the instructions worked.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 06:22:52 PM
they did, posting up the hole i cut in a few.
when the slotted holes are made for the clips, only make the hole just large enough for the bolt only.
i believe in the photo you have in your site, the slotted holes are awfully big and the clip may not grab correctly.

i am going to determine later if i want to re-enforce the tunnel or not.  its not all that strong of metal to be honest.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 08:10:54 PM
completed pics of the opening and with clips.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 08:14:03 PM
as i was putting the shifter back together, the backing (lower most plate) is held on with two rivits.
i decided that i might want to leave out the rear most rivit allowing me an easy way to increase the angle of how the shifter sits by putting shims in between this area.

when its bolted down , they aint going anywhere.

see pic
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 08:17:40 PM
i have the correct center dash trim for a center console shifter car.. which i really need to pull down and put in before i call it good.

so,, apparently my wanting to keep the "tray" is out of the question.
this setup allows the shifter to sit pretty much flush to its cover.

add a tad bit of shim to the area on the previous picture and it should level out nicely.


i spoke to this earlier but i think you can see now that you can move the shifter "back" to the area where the ash tray is.
the shifter fits nice and snug in that area and the shifter handle is shown now in D.

i would'nt think it would obstruct access to power windows/seats and such but oh well, chance doesnt want that.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 11, 2018, 08:22:31 PM
dang it,,
i forgot to reinstall my heat matting, now i gotta mess with all that stuff again!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 13, 2018, 12:18:23 PM
finally figured out how that dash mounted ash tray comes out..... man is that a beyoch to remove.

I need a blank cig lighter panel to go in that spot, i dont think i have one and i think they were farily common on 83-85 cars.

i have a system sentry modules but dont have the hear to just plop it in the opening knowing the car is not wired for those options.

what i want is to maybe make up a piece of plex blacked out, add a lighter to the left, then that leaves room for chance to add USB ports , mic port and perhaps i could even stuff in that hole a 200w inverter.,,, you know,, make use of the opening for various power uses.

this area was going to be the drink holder section if i were able to move the shifter back.,,, then it would have been perfect using the taurus holder.

i do like the drink holder in the outback though posted in the lounge....
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?40532-Clever-cup-holder
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 13, 2018, 09:46:36 PM
this center console is taking more time than i like but mostly because i am solving the little things now instead of later.

later on i want to just bolt in the console with little or no trouble,, and headach

we chose a center console that originally was in a car with column shift.
that being said, there are minor differences,, and even more when grafting into a car with a center section dash never intended to accept a center console.

first up i work hard to level up the shift indiator.  While i am at it, i repaint the indicator to a bright orange....
by the way , careful taking the shift indiator itself apart, or else you will release the deck of cards in there! 

i figure this look will be my final result after some very minor shim work and some addtional foam froming sealer.
heres a complete view from the top and the bottom.

there are still issues with the looks because my console "Sags" down up under the ash tray area.  I will solve that in later pics
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 13, 2018, 09:52:46 PM
i have no support up front for this new console, the metal support needed flipped around and adjusted almost to max but it really serves no real supporting at all.
I have plans to make this area rigid because of an idea i have which will come later.

so with useless forks up front which i will not use, i need to fab up a way to integrate this center console to this non-center console dash and make it match up.

im gonna put me an orange dot on the two forks that slide up each side of my dash and work in an idea.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 13, 2018, 09:56:10 PM
Ill cut me a slot on each side through each dot i made earlier.
find me a coupe plastic bolts and chop off the head.
graft in some tie wire, pig tail it so it does not drop out.
repeat for the other side.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 13, 2018, 09:58:18 PM
all preped in,
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 13, 2018, 10:01:55 PM
now lets set it up in the car again.
you see where i located the orange dots from earlier, the tie wire now has reach to use a screw on each side of the ash tray holder as a support reference point.
one twist in the correct direction and its in.

this was the final look i was wanting.
now i have somewhat dependable supporting on each side and somewhat of a support in the middle.

now i can roll the transmission under the car and get it spotted.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 14, 2018, 09:20:48 AM
rolled the transmission in and mounted it.
Shfter cable connected at both ends and complete.
slapped the shifter t handle and stuff back on and it feels a tad bit hard to shift.  Its reluctant to follow the shifter detends well enough for my liking.
Example, you go to OD position and it doesnt click in place on the shifter unless you jiggle the shifter a tad then it "clicks"
I think this has more to do with the shifter and the trans shift lever being just a smidge out of sync ... dono, will revisit that later.
well, plus theres no lubrication on the shifter linkage at this time.,, that is prob part of the problem having an empty transmission.

i really couldnt tell if the shift cable is supposed to go "under" the trans cross member or over top.  I should have looked at the shop manual but did not.
I noticed the cable flowed well enough by running it over top the cross member.  this makes better sense to me being my exaush will be under.

gotta pull out the speed sensor though, just noticed the bolt is loose and not sure why, better check that.

next up the motor goes in.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 15, 2018, 03:48:29 PM
I have all the stuff to do the floor shifter conversion. Lazy ass me does not want to drop the transmission to do it, when the column shifter works fine ;)

Kudos to you for doing it.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 15, 2018, 04:16:51 PM
yeah,, gotta still get that stuff out on the column, at least most of it.

just checked out the speed sensor,, WTF!  the gear wouldnt turn, took it apart and the shaft was bent.  I dono.. this is the second worrysome thing about this trans ,,,, i hope like hell its just minor stuff and it will work fine.

putting in the motor now but taking off the bumper / header and bumper guard.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 17, 2018, 08:41:36 PM
had to chase the threads out in my torque converter. 
of all my hardware i only had one 3/8'' 24thread bolt!  i had to go buy hardware!

put my flywheel on and noticed something i havent noticed before.
one of the crank mounting bolt holes has a notch in it.
we know the flywheel only goes on one way but interestingly enough that notch is perfectly in pointing in the same location as the timing pointer at TDC.
SO i'm asking,,  was this an assembly line thing where if the assembler noticed the flywheel indicator notch was off, it told him to dial in tdc?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 17, 2018, 08:43:18 PM
here's the transmission input shaft, cant remember which one is better than the other ect... chime in if you know.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 17, 2018, 08:45:44 PM
got the motor trucking along, those home made permenant lift point brackets i made worked like a charm. they will stay with the engine.
30$ a pair if interested.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 17, 2018, 08:49:12 PM
all bolted down, CW mounts worked perfectly. 
apparently the clearance for the TQ converter to the crank openning (where the converter nipples inside the crank) that tolerance is so perfect that the layer of paint i had put on was hosing me up and i had to pull it back out.  I sanded the paint off and then added some anti-sieze.

all dropped in now
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 17, 2018, 08:49:59 PM
another pic
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 17, 2018, 08:53:39 PM
question...........

my transmission double hump rear mount........
can this thing be put on backwards?

reason i ask is that the way it is now its choking off my rear transmission pan bolts badly.

the two bolts from my trans rubber mount **ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR"" of my cross member slotted holes.

DO i just pry bar the cross member towards the rear some?
Ill get a pic if needed.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on February 17, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
It can go in backwards. I can't remember correct orientation, but the bigger hump goes passenger side I believe.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 17, 2018, 09:51:34 PM
for a single pipe / single ler the trans cross member does favor the pass side with a larger hump.
for single pipe, the crossmember does "sorta have" two humps but yes the pass side is larger.


for dual exhaust , double hump cross member which is what i have, i did not notice any hump size difference.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 18, 2018, 06:35:30 PM
im not really sure what i did here, what i know is that i bought in two separate cases "v8 double hump" transmission cross members and think the one i have installed is for a v6 maybe? 

the one on the floor is offset back to the rear, matches the type i have in my 20th also.... so it looks like i messed up and installed the wrong one.

the humps on both cross members are identical though...
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: bodyman on February 18, 2018, 07:45:32 PM
Yeah, looks like you need to have the one offset to the rear installed if you want access to the transmission pan bolts. Or cut the welds and weld it back up in the rear most position. Those look just like the ford motorsport double hump cross member I ordered.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 12:12:45 PM
i pulled down a few fuel rails, plans are to use the 24# ones.

got some questions but broke each out into its own post, listing pro's or cons, 

which fuel rail / regulator combo should i go with.

motor is 331 , 30 over bore 302 formerly 88bird block.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 12:17:57 PM
this fuel rail is farily standard for 5.0L, however,
it has a fitting next to the regulator that seems it should hold a shrader valve for fuel pres testing.
the feeder lines do not have a shrader valve.

has a 3 bolt regulator which is compatible with the CFI 3.8 or 5.0L which all oem were adjustable by allen wrench, aftermarket were not.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
this one is marked F8....xxx pn.
i think its the explorer fuel rail.

fuel rail has built in shrader valve fp test port.

the feeder lines do not have a shrader fuel pres test valve.


has a 2 bolt regulator

lines come in from driver side,, seems like a rather hard fitment.
I like the idea if fuel feeds coming in from the rear though.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 12:24:44 PM
no markings on this anywhere,

has a 3 bolt regulator which is compatible with the CFI 3.8 or 5.0L which all oem were
adjustable by allen wrench, aftermarket were not.

no shrader valve fp test port
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 12:29:58 PM
this one seems stock, marked as F4xxx

has two bolt fp reg.

has shrader fp test valve
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 12:33:55 PM
here are a couple CFI FPR which are 3 bolt and adjustable, fit the 3 bolt rails but do not need vac presure.

I seem to think that i would "want" an adjustable FPR,, right?

so, which fuel rail do i go with,,,,?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on February 25, 2018, 01:50:46 PM
I like the idea of an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, but I probably wouldnt use one.

The vacuum is essentially an built in adjustable regulator. When you are on the gas, you lose vacuum, it automatically adjust fuel pressure to suit. The computer knows what it needs. You start messing with the fuel pressure,bit no longer does.

The computer can only compensate for about 10% difference from the oem tune. That's part of the reason I hate the 10% ethonal garbage we have here. It makes up a whole 7% leaving you for just 3% or so.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on February 25, 2018, 05:11:45 PM
The pic in post 371 looks like a truck fuel rail, hence why the connections are at the back driver's side...

The pic in 372 will work assuming you have stock fuel line location in the car...

The one in 373 looks as if it would work with a little tweaking of the angles of the fuel lines, as well, though I've never seen one exactly like that.

I've heard of folks using the truck 5.0 rail in a TC, as the 2.3 cars have their fuel lines running up on the firewall, nearest the driver's side, IIRC..
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on February 25, 2018, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: Haystack;464756
I like the idea of an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, but I probably wouldnt use one.

The vacuum is essentially an built in adjustable regulator. When you are on the gas, you lose vacuum, it automatically adjust fuel pressure to suit. The computer knows what it needs. You start messing with the fuel pressure,bit no longer does.

The computer can only compensate for about 10% difference from the oem tune. That's part of the reason I hate the 10% ethonal garbage we have here. It makes up a whole 7% leaving you for just 3% or so.


A lot of the adjustable regulator's need would determine what pump you have, look at Vinnie's setup....if uses that big FP he's talking about, he's going to need an adjustable if he doesn't have one on already...


I don't think a SD EEC compensates for a whole low in regards to fuel pressure. It merely can be tricked into cycling the injectors for a certain duration. Would require flashing the chip though.

Mass air EEC though is a different ballgame, and Scott had ought to be on that path, with a stroked engine...

Basically, I had a SD HO in my 'Sport with a 255 Walbro pump, ran like a scalded cat and didn't need a afpr. Never tuned on it, so I'm not going to say it would've ran better with a little less or more...who can say.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 05:30:28 PM
yes, going mass aiir,

the one in 373 is a go now,, and its marked with all the ford pn's and such, like its a stock thing
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 05:36:29 PM
I decided to go with this fuel rail.

and,, did you all know............................................
**inside the vac acuated fuel presure regulator there is a screen on the large opening?  A filter so to speak,,


swapping over the blue top injectors now.

hope i dont screw myself by going with a two bolt FPR, this one will require vacuum like normal but i really wanted to be able to recycle the CFI FPR's if you all thought it would be useful.  these FPR's for early CFI applications are pertty cheap to buy at the box stores.
I took one a part one day for the heck of it, to see how it worked and if i could recycle one into a hydraulic ram valve we have down in the creek,, i noticed it also has a filter. 
thats when i was telling people to just shiznit can thier injector screens, the fuel is getting filtered three times,, once at the tank sock, once at the fuel filter then once again a the FPR.

the fuel pump i have is walboro,, i need to look it up but 175lph sounds about right,, maybe 200, not that this car needs that.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 25, 2018, 09:41:19 PM
apparently cfi V6fuel lines are much much longer than 5.0's.  I am trying to follow the same fuel line path as the 5.0, 3.8L came in behind the pass strut tower.
i tried to keep that and it simply looked like .

i have plenty of hose to reach the fuel rail extentions by following the 5.0 path., but not without some customiztion.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on February 26, 2018, 01:02:07 AM
What injector are you going to run on the 331?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 26, 2018, 07:45:57 AM
24# installed now
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 27, 2018, 09:32:40 PM
there is absolutly no way i will use this fuel rail.  fit testing and it all sucks.
i wish it were not true but it is, its honestly a very good looking fuel rail.

the return line fitting is in conflict with the coolant rail temp sensor.
the supply line is pointing "into the upper intake.
these two things above i would be able to work around if i was desparate but, when i felt back at the FPR, i said hell no.  the one allen bolt would be impossible to remove , the angle of the FPR and one bolt would not be accessable for my son in the future.,, SCREW IT ALL.

I will go with another fuel rail with the help of my pal Rocky!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 27, 2018, 09:34:11 PM
here are the problems with this fuel rail mentioned earlier
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 27, 2018, 09:39:10 PM
so off comes the purdy "different" fuel rail from some stock ford 4 wheeler we cant identify yet to another fuel rail.

this one is purdy clean but  i really want to have a shrader valve test port on the rail.  neither of my fuel tank metal lines have a test port so i need to work on this.

here is the one i will use, bonus is it will accept the CFI 3.8L FPR thats adjustable.  We will install a vac operated one in the meantime and if chance wants an adjustable one, the solution will never be expensive.  after all , there's always "dads garage" to supply parts.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 27, 2018, 09:42:32 PM
so to drill out a spot for a fuel presure test port.......  i saw this done on another fuel rail i have so i get to it.
i discovered that the metal block i am working on must be made of a material that is not on the periodic table.. yes i have good quality bits.

i put a magnet near the drill area to catch all the stuff flying around.

i tap the threads and in she goes. 

this is a very nice looking fuel rail , no blemishes at all, nice and prudy.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 27, 2018, 09:52:00 PM
humm,,
it just clicked ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, wonder if any of you gents ever thought of this....

add a fuel presure test port to both the supply and return lines.  this way you can troubleshoot fuel delivery problems and it would either point to the regulator or the fuel pump back in the tank!!

im gonna have to stare at this for a minute and see if i can actually do that.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on February 27, 2018, 09:53:17 PM
who wants that pretty fuel rail i find useless?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on February 28, 2018, 01:05:06 PM
A stock Fox 5.0 fuel rail has a Schrader valve....
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 01, 2018, 08:29:34 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;464795
A stock Fox 5.0 fuel rail has a Schrader valve....


my 20th test port is on the fuel rail adaptor line, not actually on the fuel rail
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 01, 2018, 11:25:25 AM
Quote from: jcassity;464799
my 20th test port is on the fuel rail adaptor line, not actually on the fuel rail


Stock one on the 87-88 5.0 cars is in that location.

On 86 cars the test port is by the FPR. About a decade ago when I did the HO swap I used a fuel rail out of an 86 5.0 Cougar, because it looked better than the one on my car. Since then I have had 2 fuel pressure test ports.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 01, 2018, 09:59:23 PM
got the tank to engine bay fuel lines rounted.
This is a 3.8L original design so i will be pfte or whatever plastic line all the way up to the engine bay.

the 3.8L design gives you a lot of extra fuel line.
I am considering relocating the fuel filter up in the engine bay , it makes better sense there anyway.
I just have to find a spot for it.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: 1BadBird on March 02, 2018, 09:02:52 AM
Quote from: jcassity;464786
with the help of my pal Rocky!

That's one BIG kitty.......Mainpuppies perhaps??
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Beau on March 02, 2018, 06:54:25 PM
Quote from: 1BadBird;464812
That's one BIG kitty.......Mainpuppies perhaps??

Looks like it to me. ;)
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 03, 2018, 09:40:47 AM
i have no idea,, we discovered a batch of kittens in the woodshed and the mom saw us discover them.
she moved them and a week later i found 2 dead kittens in the gravel along the footer of our house in the fall and a live one.  one seemed to move a tad, then all of a sudden it stopped moving.  I felt like a gentle giant with this little life in my had and tried to move my finger in and out on its heart to start it up again.  I even made my hand in to a small funnel shape and placed it on his open mouth to gently blow in air, he's gone. 

heard  tiny thing noises from the other corner of the house where a drain line was and some s lumber i had lying along it.

there we found another one alive, he was eating dirt.  mom nowhere to be found.  its like 39deg outside.

this one was so young he wasn't  able to poo on his own yet, we learned thats why moms lick the kitten belly from thier kneck on down to thier tail.  it forces the poo to move along and expel.  Brit learned how to "poo" a kitten then we trained him to bottle feed.  i think back on it and figure this one was on his way out , maybe he had that day but night fall would have taken him. 

he remembers the cold, we think his body was near death at the time we found him.  I have a theory that his body faught off cold so hard that it exhausted something inside him, something that used up so much of his body that to this day that ablity has decayed, and that makes it difficult to stay warm on his own.  he gets very cold easily.

as a kitten he slept on my neck, as he grew i would wake up having a hard time getting air myself.  now his almost full grown i guess, i suspet he has another year of growing to do.  we named him rocky.

so... over time i have lost all my dogs, and i figured this cat would make a good garage cat.  I have trained him to act like a dog, i have two cats acting like dogs now.  I whistle and and he comes running.  I take a bath and he's right there.  He can run up my leg and perch on my shoulders and just chill.  he chased sticks i throw and every so often he will bring them back.  he pretty much follows me around the yard all the time.

stupid cat!!!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: tommym on March 04, 2018, 04:22:48 PM
Looks like you're having fun with those fuel rails. On the HO intake installed on my TC I used the one from my wrecked Sport Coupe. I'm changing over to a BBK fuel rail with a Kirban adjustable regulator on the 97 Mountaineer intake I plan to install. Supply is 1/2in, return is 3/8in. I think.

I'm going to order that fuel level transmitter from Summit and solve my fuel quantity issue. Ticks me off every time I look at the gauge. Any advice?

Nice looking cat. I have a feral kitten from a animal rescue lady down in San Diego. Spent his first 6 years traveling with me, living in my trailer on jobsites. He has the same cold problem your cat has. He's named Smokie, black and can't stand the cold. Lucky for him we live in Nevada, only cold for a couple of months. Normally sleeps under covers during the day in his Temperpedic cat bed. He's an indoor cat, only goes outside in the yard under supervision. Follows me everywhere, does not like the wife.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 05, 2018, 09:45:31 AM
tommy,
YES,
see this link, solves the fuel sending unit problems.
keep in mind there is another summit option for full digital clusters , this one is for buttstuffog clusters though.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?40003-Fuel-sending-unit-now-available-for-83-88-buttstuffog-guage-birds-amp-cougs&highlight=
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 05, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
Fuel filter relocation mod.

took fuel filter mounting braket from the rear passanger side and moved that whole object up to the engine bay.

The purpose is to make it convienent while doing other PM work on the car, the filter is right there easy peasy to get to.
Not saying its hard to get to now, it just has always kinda urked me you gotta crawl on the ground to do that to!.


I thought long and hard about using other cars i know of who also put fuel filters up in the engine bay.
seems there were a few rules...........
-none were attached to the interior forward of the strut tower
-none were attached to a radiator core support
-some were connected aft of the strut towers
-most are directly bolted to the engine
-all were kept a good distance from exhaust heat
-none i know of were positioned "lower" than the exhast like i have done.

this mod should be safe and keep heat off the filter.

we have no smog pump going in so i used that area to mount the filter mounting part.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 05, 2018, 10:55:48 AM
and another pic
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: tommym on March 06, 2018, 10:54:12 AM
Looks like it should work. Got your link bookmarked. I replaced my TC cluster with AutoMeter gauges. Fuel quantity is for a Ford.
Do you now what size gas tan came on the Turbo Coupe?
Quote from: jcassity;464841
tommy,
YES,
see this link, solves the fuel sending unit problems.
keep in mind there is another summit option for full digital clusters , this one is for buttstuffog clusters though.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?40003-Fuel-sending-unit-now-available-for-83-88-buttstuffog-guage-birds-amp-cougs&highlight=
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 06, 2018, 12:53:26 PM
size wont matter but 19gal is one,, then 22gal was another.

i was able to replace my old 19gal tank with the 22gal and the original straps worked fine.
the 22gal is taller.

the fuel sending unit wont care much about how deep your tank is,, the wire to the float can accomodate a farily deep tank and from that point its a matter of bending the float wire to get it graduated properly.

the original sender is designed good but, has its issues.  It does have a boat load of more resistive graduations than the Summit unit but, ohms is ohms and voltage drop is voltage drop, it wont matter, your buttstuffog guage will work out fine with the summit unit.

if  anyone wants to buy that summit unit but doesnt feel comfortable with the modification, i can do the mod no charge, you just need to have it shipped to me, then cover shipping to you when im done.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 12, 2018, 10:24:39 PM
i couldnt stop, i had to solve an access issue ive had trouble with in the past on our cars OEM stock fuel presure regulator.

here i am using a stock adjustable regulator but moved all the mounting hardware to the top so its easy to get to.

i can provide a template if there is interest from others.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: softtouch on March 13, 2018, 01:33:17 AM
Does that regulator have the vacuum nipple on it?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 13, 2018, 08:16:33 AM
its a stock CFI FPR
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: softtouch on March 13, 2018, 10:24:17 AM
Are you sure you want to use that on an EFI engine?

The vacuum control adjusts the fuel-rail pressure based on the amount of vacuum.
The objective is to keep the difference in pressure between the fuel-rail and the manifold the same.

The EEC controls the amount of fuel by varying how long it keeps the injector open.
If the pressure difference stays the same, you get the same amount of squirt per millisecond of time.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 14, 2018, 08:15:47 AM
if you have clips that are for thicker guage metal, you would not need the adaptor.

this fpr is for the mock up, vac one going on now.

I only have one 3 hole mount vac type FPR.  since you have to drill out the threads in the fpr to pass hardware through, i used an FPR i would not need.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 15, 2018, 12:28:57 PM
I'm not quite clear on how you're mounting the speed nuts in this situation.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 16, 2018, 10:05:13 AM
clips (flat side facing the bottom of the fpr  mount pad) slip on the metal u shaped bracket i made.

now you drop in your screws from the top.

i am redoing this again, stand by.... i want to use the 94 version FPR since it has only two mounting bolts.
the one mounting bolt closest to the upper intake is still very hard to get to even in this design.

on the explorer design there is a rear and front mounting bolt.  I want to use our 3 bolt fuel rail but use a two bolt FPR for even more ease of access.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 17, 2018, 09:00:54 AM
so i changed things.
Using our stock style fuel rail, i was able to settle on a 94 fuel pressure regulator which only requires two points of hardware.

I took a long skinny bolt that probably came from a large wood wire spool and shaped it to something similar to a "U" bolt. 
The shape is following the profile of the bottom of the FPR fuel rail mounting pad somewhat using a spare old fuel rail to mock up.

I taped threads on each end and test fitted it.
the shape i have somewhat causes you to tighten but the homemade mounting bracket itself gets in a bind and forces the FPR down as you tighten the top.
The pic shows that it "appears there is a lot of slack in the elbows i made ,  these elbows serve as a "springyness" type effort always applied.  Its good and tight now.

got the intake on and took a shot of access to the FPR which will be super easy.  The newer fuel rails solve this problem of too many man hours to change out an FPR, so ,  I feel like its justifiable to solve it on our cars as well.

also, the 94 FPR solves another problem with the location of the mounting hardware.  the FPR mount itself puts the mounting holes further away from the cylindrical base of the FPR housing itself to allow for tools to drop in more easily for R&R.

our stock FPRs hardware come in from the bottom via allen head screws and the removal causes you to have to touch so many other things not having to do with the FPR, that being said, this should be something easy to change out now.  Chance just has to remember this is an explorer FPR and not a stock unit.  if for some reason he ends up getting the stock style FPR with 3 mounting holes, he's not screwed because it will also be downward compatible, he just needs mounting screws.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 17, 2018, 09:10:48 AM
couple more shots
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 02, 2018, 06:24:44 PM
thought since i need a v8 cruise cable, i would take the retainer clip out and dospoogeent the shape so i can make a couple spares.  I noticed some other screws that gave me access to the insides of the cruise amplifier so i went at it.

this is whats inside there just in case you all wanted to know.  looks like a couple solenoids and a Pot.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 02, 2018, 06:34:44 PM
while i work away doing this and that, and with no fender well skirts installed, it gave perfect access to a random critter who likes to s.

im reaching down on the driver side,  planning to take some pics and this happens.

the fugger must have snuck up onto the driver front tire and observed human movement through the engine bay holes,, and especially the large round one.  There he waits for the moment the stupid human makes the mistake of passing by the opening.  he sliced the side of my hand pretty good.

this was not staged... he hung on,, i had to actually unhook his injection needle claws from my hand.  he want fighting me,,, he was simply hanging on not letting go. 

after i defeated him, i put painters tape on front driver and back passanger paws, then a band of painters tape around the tail.  I swear this cat pranks me like he actually knows what a prank is.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 10:41:09 AM
new application and design starter cable going in.
#2awg Rhh/RHW 105degC copflex wire.

in this case i heated the lug and soldered both ends, then afterwards i crimped it as well.

Oem application has a plastic pipe under the front side of the oil pan to protect the wire.
i took it a few steps further with some simple 1/2'' water line pipe i heated up and bent.

this formed a simple conduit for the wire to run inside until i was able to snake it around the pass side motor mount down low keeping it away from all the heat.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 10:45:37 AM
more pics of routing of new starter wire.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 10:48:13 AM
so,, Who knew? 
apparently the factory battery tray has no drain hole!!!!!!!!!!!!

fixed that,, now water can run out "over" the frame and to the ground, not into the frame.

see pics of fix.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 10:55:08 AM
four point ground work done.
battery to frame point front driver
front driver frame to engine AC mount
rear driver head home made braided to fire wall to match OEM look
rear pass head to to pass chassis
front pass to frame
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 10:56:51 AM
last ground wire pic
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 10:59:31 AM
vacuum canister solenoid installed, cleaned it up a tad since it has ford info on it.
also rigged up this particular v6 style carbon canister to work with a V8 application.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 11:05:16 AM
all things electrical and vac related are done in the engine bay.

Mass air harness fabercobbled in and done to the left pass side waiting.

headlamp ground lug reworked and attached to the upper L/R core support.

I never really like the original way the computer harness ran across the engine bay.
it usually chokes off access to things you need to get to.

I found a way to raise up the wire harness and secure it to the firewall like shown.
just below the wire harness gives me a tiny routing area for vac lines from the Egr solenoid and my 3way manual HVAC vac line.

I can now access bell housing bolts, the PCV, everything along the fire wall is easy to get to including the O2 sensor harness connectors.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 11:10:02 AM
should i get an AOD computer or use this stick shift computer on my car,, this will be an AOD car.

help pls?

or sell me a A9P style computer.
I also need a mass air sensor since apparently none of my MKViii Mass air sensors will work even though they were running 24# injectors.

we are running 24# injectors as well.


over a couple years ago a few people here said to get a mass air EEC ho, then snag injectors and mass air sensor from a mkviii, then you would be good.
so,, we snagged 3 sets of Mkviii injectors and mass air sensors and apparently that not the correct thing to do?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 11:20:57 AM
help again on topic.
for the sake of looks, i want to omitt the factory transmission lines.
i have NPT to barb fittings that screw into the trans.
i have an external trans cooler.

i have purchased high pres transmission rubber line.
the objective is to route the transmission lines such that they hide all the way out to the cooler.

does anyone see any issue with using home run full length  rubber transmission lines?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 23, 2018, 03:26:35 PM
I've seen it done on "hot rods" but not on a daily driver. I mean it should work but I would prefer the metal line.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 23, 2018, 05:10:10 PM
i have a perfect set of lines,, i have the old 3.8L lines as well with some damage.

the 3.8L lines are bent very different than 5.0L so i could scavange the old 3.8L ones , hammer them out to a shape i want then make short rubber transitions to the cooler.

we'll see.

what about my computer question ?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 23, 2018, 07:48:47 PM
Quote from: jcassity;465376
should i get an AOD computer or use this stick shift computer on my car,, this will be an AOD car.

help pls?

or sell me a A9P style computer.
I also need a mass air sensor since apparently none of my MKViii Mass air sensors will work even though they were running 24# injectors.

we are running 24# injectors as well.


over a couple years ago a few people here said to get a mass air EEC ho, then snag injectors and mass air sensor from a mkviii, then you would be good.
so,, we snagged 3 sets of Mkviii injectors and mass air sensors and apparently that not the correct thing to do?

There's a couple things here:

First you can't use a Mark VIII MAF on an A9P/A9L without a tune. The Mark VIII MAF is not calibrated to 24lb injectors. To run 24lb injectors on a stock A9P/A9L you'll need an aftermarket calibrated MAF, like this: https://lmr.com/item/PMA-12579AE/1989-93-Mustang-50L-75Mm-Black-Pro-M-Mass-Air-Meter-For-24Lb

Secondly the A9P and A9L are grounded differently. If you run the A9L you'll have to move some wiring to avoid burning the ground in the computer. I'm not exactly sure what wires have to be moved where (I used an A9P for my MAF conversion, which is drop in) but someone here has to have done it. The A9L will work fine with the AOD, as the computer has no idea/doesn't care what transmission is in the car.

Edit these are for 5.0 Mustangs:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/2306561-oxygen-sensor-harnesses.html
http://forums.corral.net/forums/general-mustang-tech/1094179-oxygen-sensor-harnesses-manual-auto-differences-year-differences-5.html

Check with people here who have done an A9L swap with the stock 86-88 5.0 Thunderbird/Cougar harness.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 23, 2018, 11:38:26 PM
Taking the radiator out of the trans cooler circuit will only make your trans and fluid last longer.  Seriously, when i switched to only an aux cooler, my trans temp dropped 75 degrees F.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 24, 2018, 07:33:01 AM
after a long while of picking a spot to put this trans cooler, this is what i finally came up with.
something simple to access and replace with easy hardware as well.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 24, 2018, 11:53:45 PM
That's a fin and tube cooler correct? If so I would run a much larger unit, especially if you're bypassing the radiator cooler.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 25, 2018, 04:25:30 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;465400
That's a fin and tube cooler correct? If so I would run a much larger unit, especially if you're bypassing the radiator cooler.
This.
My cooler is huge (http://"https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-12904/overview/"), 10x15.  A little less than half the size of my condenser.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 25, 2018, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: TheFoeYouKnow;465401
This.
My cooler is huge (http://"https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-12904/overview/"), 10x15.  A little less than half the size of my condenser.

I've been running a slightly bigger Hayden for 8 years: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-1015/overview/

I'll probably end up replacing it with a B&M stack plate cooler and bypassing the radiator cooler at some point.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on April 25, 2018, 02:08:17 PM
Yeah, take that shiznit right out of the radiator, all it does is dump heat into the trans.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 25, 2018, 04:29:56 PM
mike i think i will get that one,,, you all are right, it is a tad small.

i like yours because its 3/4'' thick,, it can occupy the room in between a condensor and the radiator ,,, thanks!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on April 27, 2018, 09:30:16 PM
reformed and re-routed my transmission lines in prep for a trans cooler , larger one i will order tomorrow

the objective mainly here was to eliminate the problem ford gave us all with how the two lines loop under the starter making it really hard to remove.

now the lines will route between the trans housing and the transmission dip stick.  these are 90deg fittings installed that now makes this idea of mine possible.

the lines are way way really far away from the headers as well,, another thing i had a problem with in the original design.

i decided to use metal lines up as far as possible then transition to high pres rubber lines up and into the cooler.

when the engine moves if it does,, the rubber lines will take up that flex.  the metal lines are simply floating on the engine along with the orginal line hanger.

these lines are from my old 3.8L so i have a full like new original 5.0L set ready for use as a safe back out plan incase chance one day wants to use the cooler inside the radiator.

pics ...........

sorry on quality, black surfaces dont like my camera phone
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 02, 2018, 08:50:06 AM
highly modified V6 fan shroud used for a v8 setup.
reason,,, its what i had lying around.

i sorta like how tight i was able to get the shroud up to the AC pulley.
On the pass side, i was required increase this clearance much further because access to the belt idler pulley is needed.

the bottom is removed on the fan shroud so it can be taken out easily for all the reasons we already know

to compensate, i will fab up a new piece of plastic that mounts directly to the bottom of the home made lower radiator core support,,, this will solve the issues of what i have done here to protect against debrishiznitting the fan from underneath.

i am becoming sorta frustrated with noticing all the little small things... for instance on this post.....

did you know that the fan shroud opening is not a circle?  its an elipse!!!!  or oval so to speak. 
on this fan shroud the round opening facing the engine is 19'' top to bottom.  Side to side the opening is 21''  !!!

Tpuppies away engine facing side of the fan shroud was kinda complicated ,, meaning that as you remove plastic , you dont just take off the same amount all the way around.  If you do your cut will not look "level".,, or straight.

one other thing i like about using this v6 shroud,,  its size physically balances out better with the engine size.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 02, 2018, 08:51:41 AM
another fan shroud clearance shot.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 02, 2018, 08:53:22 AM
here is an original upper radiator hose,, nos with the sticker!!!
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 03, 2018, 06:47:44 AM
i mounted the fan shroud to the rad a tad different.  clips put on the shroud then short bolts , looks cleaner to me.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 03, 2018, 06:50:34 AM
with the trans dip stick installed this is the way the supply / rtn lines look all tucked in.
now there is nothing but open space for the exhaust to travel downward.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 03, 2018, 06:52:24 AM
wanted,,,  anyone with hose clamps that have ford logo on them....

i used a junk yard crayon to smoodge in color into the logo stamping then quickly wiped away the excess to reveal a nice looking touch.
did this to every hose clamp with ford on it.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 03, 2018, 07:12:10 AM
i looked left, i looked right,, i had no dipstick for this motor!!!!!!  the one i had is for an explorer 96',, and that certainly wont work being two piece tube and all.

had a truck dipstick and tube.

i trimmed down both ends of the tube using my 20th dipstick as a template.

i then engraved new add/max markings on the dipstick then trimmed off the excess.  its all good now.
the truck handle was white, so i painted it yellow for a proper look.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 03, 2018, 07:14:11 AM
got a few parts on order to wrap up the engine bay, then its back to the gas tank fill neck, then fluids, then EEC, then start up with temp exhaust out the garage door.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 08, 2018, 01:23:50 PM
revisiting the trans cooler install,, put in one a tad bigger.

due to how my hoses needed to route i needed to heat up my coolant fill container and mush in the plastic a tad to gain clearance for two hoses to snake through the narrow crack.

it worked out really good.

if anyone wants to know how i got that brass ring crimped onto the end of that one line,,, then ask.

i found a very clever way to "replicate" the odd ball fittings that there is a special tool for call "push pull crimp".  thats what that high shoulder skinny crimp is you find like on a replacement fuell filter.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 08, 2018, 01:26:09 PM
a few completed shots
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 08, 2018, 01:27:16 PM
and another
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 08, 2018, 01:29:24 PM
i may pull in a screen over top the forward facing side of all these goodies since there will be no condenser installed,, perhaps a screen with 4 point attachment springs so it can be removed and shaken off and put back in ,,, meaning i give chance a  way to insure the fins dont get clogged up with debris.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on May 09, 2018, 02:02:34 PM
Looking at that modified fan shroud you may have an issue. With that big gap/hole in the bottom the fan isn't going to pull air across the radiator very well in that area. I'd look for an 83-88 5.0 Thunderbird/Cougar or 84-92 Lincoln Mark VII fan shroud if you can. Also don't forget to put the air deflector back on the bottom of the bumper cover. It really helps on the highway.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 09, 2018, 03:54:17 PM
yep, i mentioned earlier that i will install a separate piece of plastic that covers the bottom section which will be always attached.

what i did here simply lets you have the ability to remove the fan shroud easily to do other work.

in a normal case, you have to remove the fan clutch to water pump bolts,,, drop the fan assembly down,, then lift the shroud and fan/clutch out together..... i personally have found this to be incovienient especially when i wanted to do work on something else that did not require the fan to be removed.

one particular thing i can recall is visually inspecting the radiator for any problems on the side facing the engine.

another would be hunting down a water leak,, along the timing cover etc,,, shouldnt have to be forced to remove your belt & fan/clutch to do this in order to see better.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 09, 2018, 03:59:15 PM
i will be using this for a chin spoiler,,, works perfect for our cars,, you just shape the "ends how you want.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,2010,colorado,3.7l+l5,1444603,body,air+dam,1000

2010 chev colorado
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 09, 2018, 04:04:00 PM
regular oem alternator installed today along with a new 77.5'' belt.... rock auto stuff.

installed the power steering hoses,, much much easier and so simple now that i have modified the driver side to gain better access to this area.

now i have to find the fuel tank fill stuff and install.... then figure out how im going to start this car.

add the drive shaft after i redo oil in the rear gears.

add some exhaust which will allow the 02 sensors to get in the game,, yet thats going to need to change to wide band,, yet to determine where i get the best temperature.
Pro-m tech today told me that the location is critical pertaining to lambda, however,,, Pro-m cant help me on my tune as they only do obdII now adays.
put the turbines with new tires on,, and hope the trans works.... but getting the car started and running comes first.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on May 09, 2018, 05:13:26 PM
How often are you taking you car apart to check for issues? I just wait till something breaks or a puddle appears then fix it :hick:.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 10, 2018, 06:59:56 AM
you are right.
the answer is sort of like you having those specialty tools you rarely use.  when you need them you are darn glad you got them. I think that is what a lot of my little changes i have made boil down to.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 10, 2018, 01:34:29 PM
more progress,
settled on tweecer RT with a few spare tunes wide band o2 and a stock mkviii maf & housing.

suggestion from tweecer yielded a good suggestion.
i was asked to inspect and replace the three electrolytic caps in the eec.

i did inspect,, found two that had an appearance of leaking on the end facing the board.  the other one is ok,, but i will replace it as well.

fyi,, this may be why this A9L was not acting or playing nice enough with my oldest son's 88bird 306 maf upgrade we did last fall.  we ended up using the eec i got from vinnie a long while back which was a refurb.  this a9L was working fine but not as good as vinnies,, so these caps may be the problem.

see pics,, the three caps are obvious,, the only blue electorlytics.....
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 10, 2018, 01:42:07 PM
im not  a ford eec pro but am a pro at board repairs and such .... so any suggests on upgrading the caps to a type better than paste filled pen 15e cans?

you can see they are if anything,,, barely bad because the tops are not bulding nor the sides and no discoloration,,, just the obvious muckedy muck under two of them,, telling me that they are leaky. 

i can tell its not left over flux or whatever,, the third good appearing one is clean as a whistle underneath.
or.....

someone repaired already and did not clean up after themselves??
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 10, 2018, 02:18:48 PM
Quote from: jcassity;465698
or.....

someone repaired already and did not clean up after themselves??

nope,,

tilted these  two caps a tad and found the + leg was not in the game.
good for me,, gives me a pig tail to solder to.

so these two caps are both radial 16v 47uf,, the other is 63v 10uf. 
i may use the next size up voltage on these two caps,,, like 25v maybe,, dono yet, depends on what i find in my caps stash

the 63v 10uf one is the same profile can as these two 16v ones.  gotta look up the color code and what "blue" means though,, probably like a number beginning with 6 since its blue.  these things tend to follow resistor color code for wattage and such,, so there is a method to the madness.,, just gotta make sure i replace with something that meets & exceeds the oem design.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on May 10, 2018, 04:33:41 PM
Here's a how to link for the cap replacement: http://support.moates.net/capacitor-repair-ford-a9l-ecm/

In the 3rd photo down you'll notice the rating is printed on the capacitor itself. Replacement capacitors should at least meet that rating.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 10, 2018, 05:21:25 PM
nothing to see in the third pic,,

thats ok.  i have the normal info,, just wanted to make sure i used the correct wattage.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 10, 2018, 09:08:14 PM
replaced the two 16v 47uf caps with 50v 47uf,, same radial electrolytic style and size.

problem was for me that the oem ones were rated 105degC.  i had plenty 85degC caps,, so i went to some s circuit cards and found what i needed.

who wants to test my EEC out????

i mail it to you and you test it.... i can spot some $ for this to you.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on May 12, 2018, 01:36:47 PM
I would but I'd like to be clear that the factory wiring won't fry it. My A9P is happy with the factory wiring, I would just like to verify the A9L would be.

Otherwise try your other son's car.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 12, 2018, 09:45:26 PM
we did,, we had this a9L in his car when we did the maf swap upgrade....

mason said that he felt like the vinnie eec which was a reman seemed to do better.

when mason comes back in here in a couple weeks we will swap this one over to see.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 24, 2018, 04:17:08 PM
found this interesting date on my rear seat transmission support brace system you only find if you look under your car.
under the rear seat passanger foot rest there are two bolts sticking down tied to a flat bar that typically spans the transmission tunnel.

these bolts are welded to another brace inside the car that follows the profile of the interior of the transmission tunnel.

if you dont have the brace on the bottom of the car,, water will get into your floor pans and you wont know it.

this date must represent that point in time when the physical drive shaft was installed on the assembly line,, should preceed the actual build date of the cars door jam sticker if my assumptions are correct.  i have two bars shown here,, each are in line with the door jam sticker by just a brief moment of a few days.

its like they time stamp when the car rolled off the line,, then the door jam sticker must denote a "release date" to a dealer or final inspection ready for "sell" date or something.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on May 24, 2018, 04:26:46 PM
moved back to the rear gear to change fluid and thought about a mod.

i dislike the design of how to remove and add new fluids so i integrated a drain plug and a fill plug.

i did a real test of convenience last night and it was a breeze to add new oil.  obviously draining will be easy as well.

the drain plug consists of a "Jack Nut" insert that collapses and gives you a way to thread in a bolt. I included jbweld around the jack nut mating surfaces to seal that penetration. 
the bolt fits and with it is a belvue washer (cupped washer) along with a spare fuel injector o-ring.  snug it down and thats all it takes. 

the added "fill" plug is a spare petpen 15 valve a harvested from an old radiator.  i ran a tap into the hole i drilled and was amazed that i was actually able to get "a thread" of profile that matched the petpen 15.  its got a generous rubber gasket and a convenient wing nut style which requires no tools to remove it.
the elevation of the "fill" plug is correctly placed at the same height elevation as the NPT plug found on the front we normally would use to fill the rear.

i painted the areas below each new adder so that visually you can "see" if there is a leak or failure in either plug.

enjoy,,,, hope doing this was ok........ cause its done now.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on June 23, 2018, 10:11:08 AM
time to move on down to exhaust.  oddly crazy times over here where the car seems to be taking less priority, i have to change that.

here are my parts pics for this post to cover the exhaust and wide band oxygen sensor.

I have good lers and cats from my oldest boys car which we just built a custom 2 1/2'' Hpipe system welded up.
i gutted his cats and getting surface rust off and neutralizing the rust.
the lers are really in great shape yet the kit i got below gives me a second set to test out as well.


here is what i bought yesterday............... apparently summit does a Vet discount as well , fyi!!!
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-680111
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-640725
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-692250-1
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/INN-3918


I am paying 7$ for the one band clamp, yet is stainless steel , i am hoping to find a like solution for "butt" and "lap" band clamps at or  under 4$ ea.,, likely not possible because of the materials req'd for such a item.
this one band clamp will join my two piece hpipe.
i bought this Hpipe mainly because a XR7 owner chimed in on a review and said it fit with his shorty headers like it was meant for the car.

i wanted to go full Stainless on this but i will leave that cost up to my youngest boy later , i am at a point where now i need to make sure the budget  i spent on my sons cars are close to the same figure.  i hit about 6800 on masons bird,,, i hit 5800 on this coug for chance yesterday.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on July 26, 2018, 05:11:54 PM
getting all this installed now

this stuff from rock auto fits like a glove!!!!!!

the second o2 sensor on the drivers side is my wide band o2.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on July 26, 2018, 05:20:46 PM
getting my tweecer chip stuff all groomed in.

you cant fasten down your eec mount bracket wth the tweecer installed so you have to slip it up in there and secure as creative as you can get.

the gray flat cable clips in so its not going to pop off easily

the black cable is a slip on usb so i made a lanyard tied from the usb,, over top the tweecer and down to an eec screw with washer.  now it will safely stay connected.

the rotary switch is for my 4 custom tunes and pos 5 is to allow the tweecer to be bypassed by the oem eec incase things go wrong with the tweecer.

in my case running off the eec might as well be bad as well since the eec cant keep up with 331cu in... atleast thats what i  am told.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 27, 2018, 12:31:07 PM
You tuning it yourself or taking it to a shop?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on July 27, 2018, 05:10:44 PM
I always hated the way a twEECer fits. Or rather, the way it DOESN'T fit.  My QuarterHorse is almost completely internal to the EEC. And I can connect and tune wirelessly by Bluetooth now.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on July 28, 2018, 12:07:15 PM
i paid for three tech support / remote sessions to fine tune anything.
i will be able to tune myself later as well when i get past the learning curve.

your right,,, tweecer installed allows you to slip your eec back up into its original mount but not all the way.
apparently on the support group at yahoo forums, i seem to be the only one who really gives a  about that.
the eec holder integrates a hump back friction clip fixed to the chassis of the car so that the metal case of the eec is in constant contact wtih chassis ground when properly installed.  I am forced to integrate a separate ground wire soon so i can duplicate this application / ford design which i want to keep.
i attempted to remove the bracket to mod the plastic and open it up to accommodate the tweecer,  if its impossible for me,, im sure its impossible.

All my band clamps i got are really nice for this exhaust, i am having a blast on how clean everything is going in. 
they are beefy stainless steel and amazing!
if you slot in two spots your "ouside pipe about 3/4'' by diving in a thin side grinder disk, it makes an even better seal.
here> for 6.50$ ea which i got 10 of them
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/walker,36438,clamp,5816



its a pain getting 2 1/2'' tubing over the axles,, i may need to cut the tail pipes at the axle area and make that area adjustable up and down due to how tall these tail pipe humps are.

My old usa made exhaust pipe expander broke on me with all this thicker wall tubing.
this.........
https://www.ebay.com/p/KD-Tools-2071-Exhaust-and-Tail-Pipe-Expander-USA-Bin-b/1322941317?iid=382527014627&chn=ps

so,, i bought another non "kd" brand and apparently these are made of  stuff.

i searched and would like to present you with the very best thing ever for exhaust tubing work........... "made of USA materials" ha ha..........
LISLE   34400  - got mine on sale for under 80$ from rock auto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUWeohvz540
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on July 29, 2018, 04:34:09 PM
no tail pipes on.. but start up went pretty good.
no big issues so far.
gotta recal my wide band o2 but thats about it.,, other than get support on the phone to do a remote session a couple times.

start up day is history...........
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s60jsthi7qdcff8/VID_20180729_141159.mp4?dl=0
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 01, 2018, 03:32:43 PM
doing up exhaust,, random pics.
no lers yet, trying to devise a mount to theh pipe work that interfaces with the factory ler hanger.

This was an original 3.8L so i only had one ler hanger bracket.

my oldest son did up home made exhaust and it was so tucked away that the factory hangers ended up getting in the way especially since he used glass pack lers.

i ended up inheriting his two mounts so i used one of his to complete this round.

im doing band clamps everywhere to repairs later are easy.  its better if you use a side grinder and dive your wheel into the exterior "overlapping" tubing in at least two spots but a smidge less than the overall width of your band clamp.  this way the outside overlap pipe decreased in diameter evenly to snug up and form to the pipe its wrapped around when the band clamp is tightened.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 01, 2018, 03:40:01 PM
on the driver and pass side, this off road hpipe came with o2 sensor bungs.  they are clocked wrong and i will just have to go with it.

they needed to be anywhere in between the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock postions of the round tubing.

on the drivers side i was told thats where my wide band o2 needs to be.
im not an expert on this but i always thought the passanger side was a tad leaner because of the cyl 1 injector / spark is a smidge shorter in duration because of the dizzy stator width.  Tweecer told me that the wide band needs to be on the lean bank and that is the drivers side.  so... put the wide band on the drivers side at approx the 2:55 hours position.  .... or at about the 80deg position if the top of the circle of the pipe is zero.


also,, note that this hpipe came with two mounting horns on it that were supposed to slip into some support mounts that i think are a part of the 5.0L dual exhaust family.  since my car came with single tubing,,, i fabricated up some old shock absorber rubbers then safety wired them in place to the metal horns.
they rest evenly on the transmission cross member.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 06, 2018, 10:52:10 AM
well, i had no choice,, i had to cut the passenger side tail pipe to the rear of the axle on the vertical turn "down".  this allows me to make this section more adjustable because the fuel lines are way too close to the top peak of the hump for my liking.

i already made my slip joint to bring the two parts together but,, the horizontal section between the rear qtr and gas tank is now off.

i am taking it to a shop with a pipe bender to adjust it the way i want it.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 09, 2018, 06:21:12 PM
measured my tps green wire and dialed it back to less than a volt,, i think its steady on .9vdc.

did compression test
hot engine-  cyl1 and 5 both are at 165 psi.


cold engine all cylinders are at 190 except for cyl 7 which is 173.  I may need to leak down test this one to see if i have a rocker adjusted too much.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 09, 2018, 09:29:04 PM
well dang,,
my leak down tester has the spark plug size that is stock for our cars.
my heads take the next size up diameter spark plug thread shank "width".

now,, my compression tester has the size i need to do compression,, but the quick connect fitting (crimped on) does not snap into my leak down tester...........

what a pita
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 10, 2018, 09:18:05 PM
did a leak down test on cyl 7 and no issues.

matter of fact,, each cylinder was like watching a re-run,, 100psi shop air and leak down needle said there is zero leak.
in addition i was listening for air in the TB, oil fill , oil dip stick and looking for bubbles in the radiator,,, all good.

so... i think i need to ignore the low cold compression reading on cyl 7 and recheck everything after a few miles.

here is a pic of cyl 7 leak down
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: Haystack on August 11, 2018, 05:55:17 AM
173 vs 190 is 91%, well within the 10% specs I usually see quoted. Could be that the rings in that cylinder had more lubricant and haven't fully seated yet.

I'd run it as is and check.it after a couple hundred miles.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on August 11, 2018, 07:45:50 AM
I second that.  Run it, break it in on a good break-in oil, then recheck it.
I broke mine in on synthetic and I regret it.  Every time I fire it up, I get a short puff of blue, and I go through a quart of oil in 1200 miles.  My rings never got a really good seat.  It has decreased over time, but I wish it were better.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 11, 2018, 10:51:35 AM
mike-  i always assumed(could be wrong) that break in oil was always going to be thicker than the oil you intend to run normally.
I may have messed up as well, i put rotella 15/40 for these few test starts.

today's list is to get back in to a situation where the car will idle.
I dont think i will get there because of the Maf tables and my first initial support tune isnt complete.

im getting mixed signals from tweecer , in that i am being told to have the car road worthy before first tune remote support yet the car is not going to drive on its own without the first tune.

today i will verify fuel pres and if i can manipulate the idle, see what information i can jot down about vac pressures.  since i have to force feed the idle screw to keep it running, im betting this information is useless.


when the car idles , the pass header glows red... i should check and add timing but a part of me says to leave it at 10btdc and let tweecer set  up things.
i was under the impression that the initial pre-loaded tune gets me "running ok",, but apparently thats not the case.
I am reluctant to keep starting the car when i know i have to up the idle to keep it running.

so,, after i piddle a bit, i will move on to rear / bumper & lights, then a seat with belt then set up my call , 1 of 3 tune support calls to get things dialed in.

im guessing by week after next i will have info.

I still have a constantly on oil light while running and need to figure out whats the issue.
I have oil making it everywhere,  i have a 4'' oil sender extension that might have air in it so i will see if bleeding solves that or another switch.  I dont think the one i put in is new, but i did manually make / break the inside disc contact with a tiny screwdriver to verify continuity.  i think when i pushed in, the ckt opened, then closed again when i let off.

to avoid problems taking it on the road and not having been inspected yet, state police told me to make sure .........
-car is registered, insured then pay 10$ for a 48hr pass to drive the car from point A to point B for obtaining my state inspection.
-if the car has trouble, this pass will let me head back home and make another attempt to drive to the inspection station.
~~ all of which is fancy speak for making sure i have a way to take a few test hits... and not be in the bad graces of the police.




i want to have all my questions addressed prior to tune call 1 incase there are issues i  have numbers like
-compression tests
-leak down tests
-vac at idle (dont think i will get good info)
-fuel pres
-engine build specs


meanwhile, as i explained to tweecer, the car is not safe to drive now because the amount of idle i have to dial in, it puts the rpms high and that means i wont have good brake booster.. or good brakes...

at this particular moment i have another open issue,,, i have no idea if the transmission is working because i am not putting it in drive at 2000rpm.  with all the tiny metal flecks i found in the trans,,, knowing if the trans is going to work or not is still an open item.  I am just crossing my fingers.


what i believe is not pre-tuned on my tweecer is the MAF and the wide band 02 info,, those two things are going to screw with me in either rich or lean conditions,, since the data isnt loaded, im prob lucky the darn thing even starts at all.  (or for the damage to the engine then "unlucky" ) depending on how you look at it.  this is why i am reluctant to keep starting the car up.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on August 11, 2018, 11:11:10 AM
on another note,,
if it were not me doing the test,, i would be skeptical if anyone else said thier engine build had zero leak at 100psi shop air.... i used the tool correctly so i guess i have to simply go with it.
i remember getting these heads here from a member,, i took them apart and cleaned up the seats with a mild laping compound.  I laid the head sideways and poured water into the exhaust ports.  over night not a single bit of water escaped.  did the same for intake.  so.... maybe the data is right.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on August 11, 2018, 11:08:02 PM
What is untuned on your tweecer is the MAF transfer Function, the injector hi and lo slopes voltage offset and breakpoint, displacement, and spark table scaling.  I would not be surprised if you're massively over-fueling.  The PW required to start and idle a 302 with 19# injectors would result in an overfueling condition 8 days a week, because the EEC doesn't know you have more injector until the new injector data is made part of the tune.  MAF transfer can be bypassed for idle testing simply by turning off the ignition and unplugging the MAF and then restarting.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: TheFoeYouKnow on August 11, 2018, 11:13:59 PM
You need someone to build you a base tune.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 24, 2019, 03:56:22 PM
horn button done up to suit a cougar.
i just pulled my first steering wheel,, was too easy, thought it would be a pain but not.
installed the tbird sport / xr7 wheel in place of the more tame oem wheel.


covers on the dizzy and the coil area using oem parts just found..............
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: mcb82gt on January 28, 2019, 02:14:35 PM
X

This is my steering wheel.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 30, 2019, 05:34:25 PM
hey mike,,
do the MN series (all of them) fit our cars?
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: mcb82gt on January 31, 2019, 11:34:42 AM
Im unsure of that.  My wheel is a 87 Mustang that I put a cougar emblem in middle of, instead of the little ford logo.
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2019, 01:03:07 PM
forgot to post pics of the exhaust tips i made
Title: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on January 31, 2019, 01:08:04 PM
wide band o2 gauge bracket made up so that the trim installs without any need to cut it up.

the wiring path for this is the left vertical side of the dash where there is an oval "ish" opening big enough to get all the cables ran in.

one lead to the EVP sensor center tap
one lead to switched battery power
one lead to chassis "near" the eec
one lead to headlamp non dimable ckt
Title: Re: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 03, 2019, 05:40:47 PM
panels to go in the car with things the car did not come with factory.

this also includes our 5 position rotary switch which is supposed to "on the fly" let my son pick which tune he wants to use.

there will be 4 tunes,, and position 5 is a sort of emergency limp home using the EEC just in case the tweecer has a failure.
Title: Re: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on March 04, 2019, 03:38:50 PM
got the interior painted.

Duplicolor “trim and bumper paint”

Seems really good to me, I have all over the dash and this glove box.

I went to put this back on and noticed an area I was not happy with so 400 grit away I went.

Reshot again

It was really difficult to get the paint to sand down.  I am not saying this stuff wont scratch but… its really strong
Title: Re: 87 "coug" resto winter project
Post by: jcassity on September 03, 2019, 02:41:16 PM
test hits in progress,, then the TV cable pops off.
driving in 2nd for the distance may have cost me my forward clutch pack.
seeing the problem  now has my side brain trying to event a way that if this happens, the tv lever stays partially open to prevent trans damage.
i have no 3rd or OD.

back to demo.  at least its a clean job and my exhaust is all SS band clamps.
Talked to a trans shop, and im all set.  dono how much this will cost but since its the very last internal module to come out of the aod,, im gonna have him redo everything.  when i got the trans, i did find metal flakes sort of bronze  / brass looking.  prob a bushing on a valve body piston.

Mike, im doing a youtube review on tweecer soon.
i have couple vids now not posted because the topic of the vid was something else.