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Topic: Once again, door windows/tracks/clips (Read 9816 times) previous topic - next topic

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #15
Quote from: Haystack;388581
Dorman has them. They come with different styles of them. Two of them looked the same as the ones in there, then there were two that were roughly twice the size, length and depth. I used the two large ones on one side. I also roughened up the glass with sand paper and driled a couple holes into them to give the glue more holding area. This worked well, and I think toms entire length fix work even better. What tears the window out is the window glue holding the clips in place as the window goes up and down.


Yes the whole idea is to get more serface area on the glass and bracket. How you do it is not my concern. But the bigger clips are a plus. If people worked on the old cars they had metal brackets with welting. We used to tap the glass in to the channel with the welting folded in half. That was something that held. With my brackets you increase the surface area and that is the best way to fix it. Either way i dont care and i have sold dozens of these and i smiled all the way to the BANK.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #16
I hope you guys realize that this is a VERY good conversation/debate. For years all I've seen is silicone this, jb weld that, windshield adhesive, etc. I was hoping to find the actual culprit of the problem and find a solution for everyone who may search for this problem on the message board.

So my question now - how do I remove the regulator? I have to cut a couple holes in the dampening mat to get to the bolts, which I foolishly covered up a few years back.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #17
Silicone has NEVER worked for me . it just won't stick to the glass well enough.  The window weld by 3m that  Tom posted the link to has worked, as well as some other application specific products . YMMV  :)
Fox-less at the moment

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #18
Different RTV formulations have different colors, everybody knows this.  Blue RTV is primarily for sealing liquid in metal, Orange RTV has a high temperature tolerance and is only useful in exhaust (some guys do this, I prefer a good gasket), clear RTV is used to seal liquids against plastic, grey RTV is used in high pressure seals between metal especially aluminum, and black RTV is most useful sealing petroleum products against metals AND plastics.  RTV is certainly NOT all the same, there are differences in hardness, chemical resistance, thermal tolerance, bond strength, set time, flexibility, etc.  Your 3M product doesn't work for you, because it's made for sealing windshields and other fixed position glass such as quarter glass; our body shop uses tons of it for that purpose and to great effect.  Most people who claim that nothing works aren't either cleaning the parts properly, aren't setting the tabs in the right place (you have to be careful because once you clean the glass your reference points may be gone), or aren't allowing a full 48 to 72 hours for the bond to fully cure before removing pressure from it, and inflexible bonds fail the fastest whether properly bonded or not.  I wish there were a good way to retrofit the clamps used in F-150's since 04, they clamp on the same way, but using a bolt to squeeze the glass between two steel plates and rubber gaskets using a cantilever method, instead of a flexible adhesive, I've never seen one let go, I've only seen the ones they use in the 11 and newer edge/explorer crack the glass (which is a laminate 'sound screen' glass like your windshield, it has layers).  Still, these would be better for us, that way we wouldn't have to bicker about adhesives.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #19
LISTEN my body shop has been in business since 1901 My Grandfather started it then my dad now me and i am semi retired and now JR has it. Silicons--  Some are formulated differently but bottom line is they dont stick to glass very well. In the years i have been in the business all the reps that come to my SHOP have never recommended BLACK SILICONE to set windows tracks ETC. IT JUST AINT SO. Personally i have never seen a glass guy use it as well in a strength situation.


DID YOU NOT WRITE THIS???? >>> I wish there were a good way to retrofit the clamps used in F-150's since 04, they clamp on the same way, but using a bolt to squeeze the glass between two steel plates and rubber gaskets using a cantilever method, instead of a flexible adhesive, I've never seen one let go,

DID I NOT WRITE THIS READ ABOVE>>>>>Thats why i make my own. By the way their is a company that makes them with 2 set screws that tighten up the part to the glass. THEY DONT WORK EITHER!!!

So if you like you can drill and tap my custom rail and install screws. (your option) The screws were going to be added to my design if the adhesive i used did not work. But it worked and i think is the best way to fix this inherent flawed design.  Either way do you think in the years i have been in the business we never tried SILICONE for this application??? WE DID SEVERAL TIMES. IT DOES NOT WORK!!!

May I suggest something!!!!! Next time a mirror falls off a windshield glue the bracket on with silicone then install the MIRROR. I would love to see you do this and have it hold to the WINDSHIELD
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #20
They're not setscrews, it's a bolt, a single bolt that passes below the window into the opposing plate and draws clamping force upon the window and there is one under the front of the glass and under the back of the glass.  It works in the F-trucks and other vehicles which have no permanently attached tabs.  They're also used starting on 2011 on Edge and Explorer, however, when over-torqued they crack the layered-glass window.  And as for your mirror comment, now you're just being silly and useless to the purpose of the thread.  A mirror mount doesn't require a flexible bond, and a mirror mount hangs against gravity, a power window does not.  Don't forget the purpose of the thread, a guy asked for help.  Getting sarcastic with me helps nobody.


Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #21
The 86 doors I delt with also had ahole in the glass. You could just stick a bolt through them with some rubber to stop it from rattling.

The real problem is how the clips are held on. The clips don't just hold the window up and down, they also adhear to the window, and tension between the clips on the glass is what makes the window go down. It slides back and forth in the sliders. First tike it binds at all, it will pull the window off the tracks if there is bad adhesion.

Windsheild adhesive is semi flexdible, and has probably 10 or 15 times the strength of silicone. If the window binds, it will not just rip off the clips the first time. Jb weld is solid, but has very little adhesion, and silicone is even less strong and less flexable. Using a solid channel acrossed the whole window makes it so the clips should have no side to side stress, an will take the rigidity of the mechanisium off the clips. This way all the channel has to do is hold the window.

Really I'll bet most of it just stops bindng by taking the "play" out. The extra length in channel gives more surface area for adhesion. It fixes two Problems that the clips are supposed to do on their own.
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #22
The glass shop that does all of my work had sold me aluminum clips for one of my old cars (think it was an '88 Cougar). They totally replace the plastic clips and provide much more rigidity. Coupled with their glass adhesive, the metal clips totally solve all issues related to the glass detaching (1987-88 cars). I believe they were $25 each but he had tons of them in stock.

Something that people just may want to explore. And honestly, the clips were very simply designed, could probably be easily manufactured by an entrepreneur-type.

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #23
Man, you guys are a curse....both of my door windows have pulled off of the clips in the last week or so. Thanks for nothin' fellas!

Looks like I'll be getting some black RTV soon...
'84 Mustang
'98 Explorer 5.0
'03 Focus, dropped a valve seat. yay. freakin' split port engines...
'06 Explorer EB 4.6

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #24
a mirror mount hangs against gravity, a power window does not.

Fascinating COMMENT

When a window gets iced over and you hit the down BUTTON. If the bond from the window and the clips are poor they separate. Those forces are much higher than a mirror glass bond. By the way you can also design my fix with a clamping design.( I initially was going to do it that way.)  All you have to do is make the channel deeper and use screws to provide you clamping arrangement. I personally would advise against that as the glass will most likely break. Also i dont know about others but my car does not have laminated glass. So be it as it may i have the fix. If you have another way to do it GO RIGHT AHEAD. At this time i checked my repair dospoogeents and i have repaired 44 Windows with my FIX. NONE FAILED AS OF YET.
I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #25
WELL WELL JR just pointed out we have a T BIRD window job in the shop as we speak.

A customer that used the old SILICONE TRICK ON HIS WINDOW. He wants me to fix it properly. Note the silicone did not hold. The guy said he did it twice with no luck. Well time to fire up the spark machine and build some new tracks for this guy.

U



I spend money I don't have, To build  cars I don't need, To impress people I don't know

HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY!!

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #26
It looks like a clear sillycone that don't hold squat period.


86' T/C 4.6L DOHC
16' Chebby Cruze 1.4L Turbo
17’ Peterbilt 389 600hp 1850ftlb Trq 18spd

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Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #27
In those pics it looks to me like the OEM glue wasn't removed before they "fixed" it, all adhesives need a clean fresh surface to work properly. I have never used black rtv or windshield adhesive they both could work for all I know.

For the past 5 years or so I have used Automotive GOOP and have yet to have it fail on me, but I also take the time to make sure everything is clean, working properly/smoothly, and has plenty of time to cure before putting it back together. I also use the factory plastic mounting tabs, I just take the time to drill 2 small holes through each tab to allow the glue to seep through and scuff up the glass the best that I can. Not saying this is the best thing to use, just what has worked for me. :D

Here is the link to it.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=automotive+goop&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=9661363119951255701&sa=X&ei=5J-hT976BseTgwfd383eCA&ved=0CF4Q8wIwAg

Good luck with your repair! Every bird that I have bought has had at least one window that has came loose! :mad:
...and there was light!

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #28
Quote from: T-BirdX3;388744
In those pics it looks to me like the OEM glue wasn't removed before they "fixed" it, all adhesives need a clean fresh surface to work properly. I have never used black rtv or windshield adhesive they both could work for all I know.

I'm not sure what that is on the rear of the window. The front clip doesn't have any of that stuff. In that area, where that one clip is, it has a very uneven surface that is rock hard. I tried using a ser to get it off, but it's hard as the glass it's on. Last time I just sanded the area well and applied JB Weld. The JB Weld held until I tried rolling the window down one morning when the ice was apparently stronger than a typical thin coating (had to roll down to see anything - sing ice off wasn't enough). The window motors just ripped the clips off. I'll grab a picture of the spot next time I have the window out. For all I know, someone could have applied something to that area of the window long before I got the car.

My passenger side doesn't have that rock-solid stuff on it either. That one's also not the original door though.
1988 Thunderbird Sport

Once again, door windows/tracks/clips

Reply #29
Quote from: Seek;388750
I'm not sure what that is on the rear of the window. The front clip doesn't have any of that stuff. In that area, where that one clip is, it has a very uneven surface that is rock hard. I tried using a ser to get it off, but it's hard as the glass it's on. Last time I just sanded the area well and applied JB Weld. The JB Weld held until I tried rolling the window down one morning when the ice was apparently stronger than a typical thin coating (had to roll down to see anything - sing ice off wasn't enough). The window motors just ripped the clips off. I'll grab a picture of the spot next time I have the window out. For all I know, someone could have applied something to that area of the window long before I got the car.

My passenger side doesn't have that rock-solid stuff on it either. That one's also not the original door though.
He was referring to Tom's last post.