Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #30 – April 02, 2021, 02:19:52 PM You say you reused the original struts and only swapped the spindles. But the original 10" brake spindles have a thicker mounting pad on the spindle than the 11" spindles use. So you must have used spacers to make up the difference when you changed spindles.I have gotten new store bought struts for these cars before where the strut body mounting ears had the wider spindle mount design even though they were spec'd for a 11" brake car. The reason? The common store bought strut manufacturers decided to stop making the struts in 2 versions, one with wider spindle mount ears, one with thin. Probably for cost reasons or to keep people from buying the wrong version. So they make them ALL with the wide and include in the plastic hardware bag a set of 2 rectangular steel spacers with predrilled bolt holes for the two strut mount bolts to make up that width difference. I've also seen that where the strut mounting ears are welded onto the strut body vertically seems to vary quite a bit depending on manufacturer and vehicle application. If your car has previously had struts replaced, you may want to look at how far up or down the strut body your mounting ears are at. In my experience the 87-8 cars are camber sensitive to these details due to the longer front lower A arms. Quote Selected Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 02:22:44 PM by Vintage
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #31 – April 02, 2021, 03:46:22 PM Sorry I didnt get the message earlier about the pictures with the wheels turned, ill get those pictures shortyly...I think you may be onto something there about the bushings getting stuck in a new 'clocking' lets call it....its odd because i bounced the car on the suspension and it didnt seem stiff at all, nor did it lower itself down...but i shall try cracking the bolts loose. And yes, the 10" were narrower, i used spacers, 1 on either side of the knuckle, to make up the difference. Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #32 – April 02, 2021, 06:59:20 PM Having to use spacers for a narrower strut shouldn't cause the camber to be off. Those are two consistent points and the locations are very close to identical (if not exactly the same) between the 10" and the 11" spindles. If you let the CA drop down as far as it would go, could it be possible the springs popped out of their pocket on the CA and caused what amounts to a taller spring? (that will certainly and definitely cause your issue)The other thing I can think of is that the spindles were bent, like they came from a wrecked car. I'd doubt this is the case, but could be. I'd assume you know their source?Last thing; did you happen to disconnect the swaybar end links and then not get 'em tightened up enough? They have to be nearly parallel to the ground (rather a smooth flat surface, preferably)A couple of well lit pics of the underside of the front end help us I'd bet. Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #33 – April 03, 2021, 11:00:50 AM Here are some pics, if they dont show enough, i can take the wheels off and get more... I dont believe the springs rotated in their pockets, i never dropped it low enough for them to lose tension...i never touched the sway bar links either. The spindles, i bought them 10 years ago from someone on this forum...theyve just been sitting under a toolbench since then...i doubt both of the spindles would be able to be bent at such an angle to make this problem, the casting would just snap. turbo coupe/xr7/GT mustang 11" spindles ARE all the same right? I was told these were from a thunderbird, but... Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #34 – April 03, 2021, 11:45:22 AM Spindles look correct. I want to say the only odd ball ones were the SVO Mustang units. They were based on the Mark VII spindle which has a larger taper in the spindle for the ball joint and some slight geometry differences but you would know if you had a set of them as it would swallow the ball joint without an adapter.I would strongly suggest you 100% confirm the springs did not pop out of the “pocket” in the cup of the LCA. If that is good to go then loosen the LCA to k-member bolts and do as Chuck suggested.On a side note you need to think about rebuilding those LCA’s and installing new sway bar end links. The years have not been kind. Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #35 – April 03, 2021, 03:33:01 PM Quote from: Beau – on April 02, 2021, 06:59:20 PMHaving to use spacers for a narrower strut shouldn't cause the camber to be off. Those are two consistent points and the locations are very close to identical (if not exactly the same) between the 10" and the 11" spindles. If you let the CA drop down as far as it would go, could it be possible the springs popped out of their pocket on the CA and caused what amounts to a taller spring? (that will certainly and definitely cause your issue)The other thing I can think of is that the spindles were bent, like they came from a wrecked car. I'd doubt this is the case, but could be. I'd assume you know their source?Last thing; did you happen to disconnect the swaybar end links and then not get 'em tightened up enough? They have to be nearly parallel to the ground (rather a smooth flat surface, preferably)A couple of well lit pics of the underside of the front end help us I'd bet.No, you misunderstood, I had questioned about the strut spacers because he said he had reused the struts and had not mentioned he acquired some spacers to mount them up, just wanted to clear that up before moving on to addressing his camber concerns.So...3 main factors influencing camber here are vehicle ride height, spindle design (can't do much to alter what's baked in from factory here), and strut positioning.So, going off him having stated that the springs were never dislodged from the control arm pocket while having the A-arm lowered to swap spindles and unless he really put the torque to those control arm bushings while unloaded... then I'd be looking closely at how the strut is positioned both top and bottom. How close does the strut body come to contacting the inside edge of the wheel/tire assembly? Any pics of it? With hood open, how is the strut positioned at the strut tower, towards the fender or towards the engine?So assuming everything else is checking out, which would be a bit odd... solutions to get rid of positive camber? Aside from installing lowering springs in the front, which will bring some negative camber into the picture, or installing the tbird specific caster/camber plates...The other options are too elongate one of the strut to spindle mounting holes on the strut ears to allow the spindle to be inclined inboard, thus decreasing the positive camber...OR... slightly elongate the upper strut mount holes at the strut tower to allow the strut to incline inboard, bringing the spindle with it, thus decreasing the positive camber. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #36 – April 03, 2021, 04:09:56 PM The strut upper mount used to be positioned all the way out to increase the positive camber, but i now have them pulled all the way in; it did not correct the problem nearly enough. If the MM caster/camber plates have more adjustability, that may be able to get rid of some more of the camber, but theres only so much you can adjust because the hole in the shock tower is only so big...as far as grinding out the holes on the strut...i had considered that, but i didnt know if slotting them would risk the bolts sliding in the slotted holes, since the whole weight of the car, and all the bumps being soaked up are put directly onto those bolts; i worried if i hit a big bump it would jostle the bolts and they would move the camberAnd yes, the control arms/sway bars are going to be dealt with; im going full QA1 up front when the funds are collected Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #37 – April 03, 2021, 04:22:30 PM Yeah, I'd do either the top or the bottom hole, depending on clearance between spindle pad and strut body. Maximum motorsports had a little squib on it somewhere on their webpage at one time. Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #38 – April 03, 2021, 04:24:27 PM So before you get all crazy, loosen the LCA bolts and drive it like Chuck suggested. It’s free and none of this makes any sense whatsoever. Something has raised the front suspension and you need to continue to do the free stuff before throwing money at it.I’m going to say the LCA bushings are in bad shape they could have reset when you relaxed the suspension swapping the spindles. Again, this only takes a couple hours to do and costs nothing. I will say the bolts may be rusted to the bushing sleeves based on what the sway bar end links look like. Soak the nuts with something like PB Blaster overnight and focus on loosening them not the bolt head i.e. back the bolt head and put the working tool on the nut. Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #39 – April 03, 2021, 04:25:42 PM Most folks use a smaller diameter upper strut to spindle grade 8 bolt to get more negative camber. I’m talking about 0.125” smaller nothing crazy. Did this on my 83 waaaaay back in the day before MM made their plates. Quote Selected Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 04:27:24 PM by Aerocoupe
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #40 – April 03, 2021, 07:58:50 PM Yes, im going to try loosening the bolts, see if that helps. I just went out and confirmed that the spring ends are indeed still clocked right in the spring pocket. Funny thing is, that even when i puysh down on the front end, and bring the ride height down about 2 inches, it does not change the camber angle at all...i can still clearly see the tire sticking out from the lip...making me think this isnt something to do with ride height/springs...On that note about the MM plates...DO they offer MORE camber adjustability over the stock mounts? Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #41 – April 03, 2021, 08:41:09 PM You will not see a camber change compressing the suspension with the car parked. The tire is friction locked to the pavement. Move the car and it will change but it requires a drive. Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #42 – April 04, 2021, 04:28:58 PM Ive solved the problem gentlemen...but im still concerned as to why its happening...there is so much toe-in that when i drive the car forward, it forces the positive camber, and the tension of the tires holds it there. When I reverse, the toe-out going backward forces in negative camber, and again holds it there because of the tires. So, theoretically, getting an alignment to fix the toe will solve the problem, but im still curious to know if this is normal, since I know cars tend to have some degree of toe in or toe out. Im guessing that the friction of the tires on the ground was either holding the ride height up, forcing the upper strut bushing over, bulging the tire sidewalls, or all 3 of those things. Quote Selected Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 04:30:34 PM by Driverguy 1 Likes
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #43 – April 04, 2021, 05:39:00 PM You need to check your rack and see if it has slip in it. Neither of my Foxes do what you are describing. Quote Selected
Re: Help Please. 11 inch brake upgrade gone bad. Reply #44 – April 04, 2021, 08:22:39 PM Does the new spindle change the height of the tie rod mount? If I recall I think a bump steer kit and outer tie rods are needed. Quote Selected
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