Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: count on August 24, 2019, 01:14:09 PM
Title: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on August 24, 2019, 01:14:09 PM
Hey guys I’ve been preparing to take my engine out to address rear main seal issue. So while it’s out I plan to do some mods. I been researching this for sometime now. Like everyone else I want to do it on a small budget. I feel good about my plan but I want to post it for some feed back. Now for the plan, my goal is 300whp daily driver. Parts:
-1995 explorer GT40P heads, upper and lower intake, fuel injectors, and throttle body -New lifters -1.7 rocker arms -New push rods -springs -ford racing e303 cam -88 mustang ECU My research tells me that this combination of parts can potentially yield me the desired hp I seek. Please any feedback will be much appreciated. Disclaimer I am a complete novelist when it comes to engine building. This will be my first engine build.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 24, 2019, 05:21:52 PM
Well a GT40P headed 302 is not going to get you 300 wheel horsepower. You're going to need to go to some decent aluminum heads to get to that level.
If you want to run a E303 cam you will need to convert to MAF using an 89-93 Mustang 5.0 computer. The 86-88 Mustang 5.0 computers were Speed Density (except the 88 California cars, which were MAF) and do not play well with non-stock cams. I would run 24lb injectors with a GT40P head 302 and an E303. The 19lb injectors are a little small.
In addition you would need headers to replace the cast iron manifolds currently on you car as well as a new H-pipe for the headers. Plus the rest of the exhaust. A new fuel pump, as the stock one is too small.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Vintage on August 25, 2019, 10:58:17 PM
What Thunderjet said. The parts list is essentially an Explorer engine with the improvements of an E303, 1.7 rockers and better valvesprings. The stated goal is 300 wheel hp.
Ford rated the 5.0 Explorer and Mountaineers from the late 90s and early 2000s at 215 hp and around 280-5 tq. Those are flywheel numbers, NOT measured at the drive wheels.
Even if we allowed for only an 18% loss thru the transmission and rear axle, the rear wheel numbers, at best, would be closer to 170hp and 230-240tq as a starting point.
We'd be asking alot to see an E303 cam and 1.7 rockers bring the needed 130hp deficit to the wheels to reach the 300.
This is a ~ 200whp motor, assuming good exhaust components and auto trans, thats all.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 26, 2019, 12:04:25 AM
Well in stock form Explorer 5.0s have exhaust manifolds, a single exhaust, and a cam that is very similar to the cam used in our cars, but with the HO firing order.
Adding headers, a 2.5" exhaust, and an E303 cam should put the engine closer to 280-300hp at the crank. Through an AOD that translates to 230-250hp at the tire, if you're lucky.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Vintage on August 26, 2019, 09:25:38 AM
Actually the Explorer 5.0 uses a steel tubular header that, while more convoluted in appearance and function than the steel HO header, is not a cast iron manifold.
For near stock motors such as this Explorer 302, typical aftermarket shorty headers have been shown repeatedly on dyno tests to add somewhere between nothing to 7-10hp depending on which rpm point on the curve you're looking at. Averaging the slight losses and modest gains of the curve nets you an overall gain of 6-8 hp, thats it.
Similarly, the average 2.5" H or X pipe will offer a 10-12 whp gain at best, again because this engine's output is not sufficiently high enough to be suffering huge losses from exhaust inefficiencies.
The E303 cam can offer gains of around 20 whp when used with well-ported factory heads modified to take advantage, primarily of the additional lift. Unfortunately, with the engine we are discussing, any valve lift past .480 isnt going to gain much if anything due to cyl head inefficiencies. In this motor, I'd be surprised if the peak gain was anything over 10 whp, with the average being less.
Together,I'd estimate these parts represent a potential gain for this motor of less than 30whp, which when added to the 175whp the engine is likely to produce when backed by an automatic trans, puts it at ~ 200 whp. Thats around 240hp at the crank, and I'm being generous here.
Fact is, like the drag strip, a chassis dyno run is a harsh introduction to reality for most everyone that hits it for the first or second time. I've worked hundreds of dyno and drag strip events. Everyone thinks they will lay down a 12 sec pass or put down 300whp at least. For many, the reality is quite different.
I'm not trying to be a buzzkill here. Just understand that a 302 that makes 300 whp will need to be making between 350-375hp at the crank. Poweradders like nitrous or turbos aside, a 300whp 302 is no accident and certainly won't be budget friendly.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 26, 2019, 05:12:09 PM
There have been several dospoogeented cases where people have taken junk yard Explorer 5.0s, swapped in a E303/B303/TF Stage 1 cam and new springs, headers, and a full 2.5" exhaust and made 240-260 wheel HP on a dyno. Just search Corral https://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1313525-another-gt40p-dyno.html . I wouldn't doubt that the OP could get into that range with GT40P heads. 300+ wheel HP no way. That would require an insane amount of porting. At that point better heads are warranted to get 300 wheel HP.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Vintage on August 26, 2019, 08:45:37 PM
Sorry, but the guy whose thread you linked to was posting dyno numbers thru a T5 which makes them inherently higher, he was using a tmoss ported explorer which is probably adding around 15-20hp, maybe better at the peak, and even people in the thread mentioned the dyno numbers sounded somewhat inflated.
Look, we can move goal posts all day to give OP the impression he's gonna crowd 300 rear wheel thru an AOD with an Explorer takeout motor sporting an E cam and a decent exhaust. Not gonna happen, done it myself, watched I dont even know how many people do same/similar and been at the track to see the tale of the tape. If the OP is using an AOD, and is using the parts he listed, he'll be close to 200rwhp and nowhere near 300 on an accurate dyno without a fudged correction factor. I'm sorry but that is the limitations of that combo and that budget.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Vintage on August 26, 2019, 09:43:03 PM
Just as an aside, and for the benefit of the OP, if budget is truly a compelling and unyielding factor in your build, my recommendation would be to check your local drag strip or speed shop for a name and number of a reputable head porter in your area.
The Gt40 heads and lower intake can respond very favorably to a basic cleanup in the hands of a skilled porter, not break the budget, and put a healthy amount of additional power under the curve at all usable rpm points.
Aside from a T5 swap, the power gains from porting your listed components will yield the best bang for the buck.
On the heads: *Valve bowl cleanup, valve guide bosses tapered, across all. *If stock valves are serviceable, I've had good results on a 32 degree back cut on the intake valves that slightly reduces the width of the stock 45 degree seat cut. *Light cleanup/squaring at the pushrod pinch on intake ports to allow smooth transition from ported lower intake. *Carefully smooth and transition roof of exhaust port, with an eye toward centering valve in the port, since Ford production exhaust ports tend to be somewhat skewed to one side. There are water jackets close by in certain areas of the exhaust port, dont get too greedy here.
Lower intake: *Blend in the short turn radius where the upper meets the lower. *Straighten the #1 and 5 dog legs, blend the transitions. *Keep port exits around a 1/16" smaller than cyl head intake port dimensions.
While this is only a fairly quick and very basic porting job as described, it will put a very worthwhile additional amount of cfm airflow thru the engine which should both broaden and raise nearly the entire curve, which is far more important than peak numbers anyhow.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 27, 2019, 12:19:21 AM
I'm not saying that the OP is going to get close to 300 wheel HP with untouched GT40P heads. He could get in the 230-250 wheel HP range through an AOD with the right selection of parts. He should be closer to 250 than 200 hp though.
Unless the OP is porting the heads himself I wouldn't bother. Take the money for GT40P heads, springs, and porting and put it towards a decent set of heads from AFR/Edelbrock/Trick Flow. The OP would be money ahead and much closer to their 300 wheel HP goal.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Clayton on August 27, 2019, 09:05:05 PM
My buddy has a gt40p headed 302 with a f cam 600 brawler carb Vic Jr intake putting 260 to the wheels.
300 is a steep goal with the parts listed. But the parts listed will make a very streetable daily with some extra nuts
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Outsidedog on September 03, 2019, 10:15:28 PM
I know a way to make 100 HP with the push of a button on a budget! Also if you don't already have all the parts I know in my A9L post vinnietbird was selling an X3Z computer with 24# injectors for a good deal. But will require the MAF conversion of course which is super simple and affordable as well. 300 WHP on an AOD is very hard to do on a budget, all motor. They are a huge slushbox that do nothing but rob power. I think Vintage is dead on.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on September 06, 2019, 11:46:19 AM
I appreciate everyone input, and i now recognize I may have misspoken about potential hp gains with parts list given. If 200hp -240hp can be gain with my parts Including mass air, new computer,h-pipe with headers and gears. I think that would be a noticeable bump up in horse power from the stock 155hp. Just got mass air sensor from yard picking up the Explorer engine tomorrow for tear down not sure what to do with bottom half of the engine though. Anyone have any ideas? Like can I use the the pistons? Is the block worthless?
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Clayton on September 06, 2019, 11:57:55 AM
Leave the bottom end alone if it's solid. Put your cam of choice in it and go. The only thing you'll have to do is swap the pan. Know which engine you get I dont remember the years but the gt40s came on one and gt40ps came on another and the spark plug angles change. Just a minor headache changing plugs if you buy non p headers
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Haystack on September 06, 2019, 12:54:37 PM
You can use the explorer block if you want. The crank doesn't stick out as far, cant Remember of that is just a different pulley/harmonic ballancer or not. The block is fine, and so are the pistons, however the pistons are not forged.
I would stick with the motor you already have if the pistons will clear. This needs checked, especially with a bigger cam and the gt40 heads.
I would suggest a 24# injector and the mods needed for that. You would be right on the edge if What 19# injectors will want to do.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on September 06, 2019, 01:15:59 PM
You can use the explorer block if you want. The crank doesn't stick out as far, cant Remember of that is just a different pulley/harmonic ballancer or not. The block is fine, and so are the pistons, however the pistons are not forged.
I would stick with the motor you already have if the pistons will clear. This needs checked, especially with a bigger cam and the gt40 heads.
I would suggest a 24# injector and the mods needed for that. You would be right on the edge if What 19# injectors will want to do.
24# injectors? Then I’m definitely going to need a lager fuel pump? And if so how big? And will I need forged pistons for my application?
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Clayton on September 06, 2019, 01:47:46 PM
Standard upgrade is a 255lph pump for a lot of the guys here. And an adjustable fuel pressure regulator
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Haystack on September 06, 2019, 03:38:45 PM
Forged pistons are just stronger. If you are thinking about boost or nitrous is say its highly recommended.
The stock fuel pump in our cars is around 60 lph, the stock mustang fuel pump is around 90, most guys go to a 190lph or higher. I would definitely upgrade either way.
Stay away from parts store pumps, I've had no luck with them, some even dead out of the box.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on September 06, 2019, 05:00:11 PM
Forged pistons are just stronger. If you are thinking about boost or nitrous is say its highly recommended.
The stock fuel pump in our cars is around 60 lph, the stock mustang fuel pump is around 90, most guys go to a 190lph or higher. I would definitely upgrade either way.
Stay away from parts store pumps, I've had no luck with them, some even dead out of the box.
If not the part store then who? Ford Racing?, LMR?
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Clayton on September 06, 2019, 05:36:16 PM
I have the BBK 255 in mine.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 06, 2019, 05:51:13 PM
The crank in an Explorer 302/5.0 is the same as any other 302/5.0 crank. The difference in length comes from the front pulley, balancer, and timing cover set up. Just swap the front cover, water pump, and balancer from a Fox onto the Explorer block and you're good to go.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Outsidedog on September 06, 2019, 10:17:47 PM
This is the fuel pump I bought from American muscle years ago that I have a boost-a-pump hooked to and never had an issue with it. Probably overkill for what you're doing but looks like even the 110lph is only a few dollars cheaper. You won't need forged pistons unless you are planning to add a power adder in the future in that case I would do it now and head stud it unless you like doing head gaskets like me. But from what I can tell you aren't going that route.
Every time I put a new block in I check what I can see of the cylinder walls for scoring and address as needed. Then I take all the caps off the crank shaft and one at a time lift up on the crank and very cautiously roll the upper bearings out and roll new ones in without taking the pistons out and dealing with all that. It gives me a little piece of mind takes a few minutes and the bearings are relatively inexpensive. Other than that I do all yhe normal stuff thats already been said here.
Haven't spent the money on forged pistons yet I run about 8-10 psi daily and 100-150 shot of nitrous off the line at the track. In the past two years I've replaced head gaskets twice and the block once, before that I was making stupid tuning and driving mistakes and blew up much more than that haha.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on September 07, 2019, 01:33:48 PM
I was wondering if I needed to have forged pistons or not for this application, I do want to stick a turbocharger on this build maybe sometime in the future though. Does it make a difference or not to but new forged pistons or maybe look for some from the yard.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Outsidedog on September 08, 2019, 10:59:24 AM
I would say if you can find a block with forged pistons (I can't remember off the top of my head which ones had them) I would go with that and use the block they came in if you can, while you have it all apart now. I don't think you HAVE to by any means right now, but if it's an option its a good upgrade, may save you time in the future and anything to help with piece of mind I think is worth it. I can say this, if you do end up pulling the pistons out of any block replace the rings and do not go cheap on them. Made that mistake before.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on September 28, 2019, 10:31:36 PM
Picked up my 97 explorer motor today tear down tomorrow.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Vintage on September 29, 2019, 08:37:06 PM
Is it a running engine?
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on September 30, 2019, 07:16:34 PM
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on September 30, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
This is what I got when I tore down motor. Could anyone tell me if I can use the pistons from this 97 explore engine? And what the best DYI way to clean intake and heads?
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Vintage on September 30, 2019, 11:04:58 PM
Why do you keep asking about if you can use the pistons? Its already been covered in this thread that people use the Explorer 5.0 motors all the time straight out of salvage yards without any changes other than to swap on the foxbody oil pan/pickup tube, timing cover/harmonic balancer/driven accessories, motor mounts, and conventional TFI distributor if using EFI.
In the past, before I bought a salvage yard motor, I pulled and inspected all spark plugs, pulled the oil dipstick to see if it was varnished/stained from poor oil change intervals, and tried to have a look at the vehicles radiator to check for coolant breakdown/crud, another sign of poor maintanence. Maybe popped a valve cover off also.
If all that looked good, I had a reasonably good chance of having a runner that I could use as is with a new oil pump, roller timing chain, new roller lifters, and a used HO cam or aftermarket cam if using better than gt40 heads, and some common sense inspection,cleaning, and upgraded the head bolts to ARPs with Fel pro blue stripe headgaskets.
If you didnt check any of that stuff prior to purchase, you're now just depending entirely on luck or taking their word for it that it ran okay before they pulled it.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 01, 2019, 12:57:36 PM
Why do you keep asking about if you can use the pistons? Its already been covered in this thread that people use the Explorer 5.0 motors all the time straight out of salvage yards without any changes other than to swap on the foxbody oil pan/pickup tube, timing cover/harmonic balancer/driven accessories, motor mounts, and conventional TFI distributor if using EFI.
In the past, before I bought a salvage yard motor, I pulled and inspected all spark plugs, pulled the oil dipstick to see if it was varnished/stained from poor oil change intervals, and tried to have a look at the vehicles radiator to check for coolant breakdown/crud, another sign of poor maintanence. Maybe popped a valve cover off also.
If all that looked good, I had a reasonably good chance of having a runner that I could use as is with a new oil pump, roller timing chain, new roller lifters, and a used HO cam or aftermarket cam if using better than gt40 heads, and some common sense inspection,cleaning, and upgraded the head bolts to ARPs with Fel pro blue stripe headgaskets.
If you didnt check any of that stuff prior to purchase, you're now just depending entirely on luck or taking their word for it that it ran okay before they pulled it.
I aplologize if my questions are redundant I’m a complete novelist when it comes to engine building I never removed a motor or any of the stuff I’m about to do. I’m done some research, but I’m still learning as I go, I do appreciate the feedback though. I didn’t ask the person who sold me the motor any questions about it, nor did I inspect the explorer the motor came from. I pretty much took this person’s word. I have been working with this person on parts for a year now though.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Vintage on October 01, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
Thats fine, everybody has to start somewhere, no need to apologize for it. The reason I asked was that typically, pistons are not a wear item, whereas the piston rings are, especially if the engine had poor maintanence, excessive oil change intervals, was overheated, etc.
If the engine was well cared for, and inspection of main bearings, cyl bores, etc is all favorable, it is entirely possible that the shortblock could be run for another 100K miles as it is with replacement of the parts I mentioned above and no replacement of piston rings, bearings, block machining, etc.
The gt40 cylinder heads should be inspected, have valve guides checked and new stem seals installed at a bare minimum. The valve seats, in my experience of taking apart probably close to 200 of these heads, are usually fine even with alot of miles due to it being a wide, single 45 degree seat. If however, the engine has been severely overheated, that can quickly change.
You can buy at most hardware stores a steel cup brush that the shank can be inserted into a common power or cordless drill and used to quickly clean the gasket surfaces of both the aluminum intake and the iron heads. Use safety glasses. That goes double if you use the brush inserted into an air powered die grinder as the RPM will much higher. I dont even recommend it due to the risk of the brush violently seperating, but I know people do it anyhow. Alternatively, you can use the smaller roll lock discs with the correct mounting pad. The cup brush works better for cleaning irregular, non-flat surfaces.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: vinnietbird on October 02, 2019, 09:43:33 AM
Use the Explorer motor and ditch yours. I have an Explorer engine in my 88 Bird. You will need valve reliefs for those heads and an E303 cam. You will need to transfer the oilpan and other external pieces from your current engine to the Explorer engine, but a 5.0 is a 5.0.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 02, 2019, 04:45:58 PM
If you want to clean up the intake try using a citrus based degreaser and just let it soak in it for a day or two. If that doesn't get it then try something like Citristrip and brush it on and let it sit for a couple days. This will take it down to raw aluminum so you will want to use a good degreaser, prime and then paint. Another option is if the intake runners are pretty clean on the inside take it to a powder coater and let them media blast it and powder coat it. So its elbow grease, your time, and a little money or drop it off and pay for it.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 03, 2019, 08:53:10 AM
Use the Explorer motor and ditch yours. I have an Explorer engine in my 88 Bird. You will need valve reliefs for those heads and an E303 cam. You will need to transfer the oilpan and other external pieces from your current engine to the Explorer engine, but a 5.0 is a 5.0.
I was up on the air, as to what engine to use (explorer or thunderbird) I decided to use the explorer, it just makes a lot of sense to save time effort and money. I wanted to keep as much original parts as I can, so I was leaning towards using the original motor. Not sure why though ( this car is definitely going to be a Frankenstein) And Vinnie your right a 5.0 is a 5.0. plus there has been some small improvements done to the 5.0L between 88-97 which also make sense too.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 03, 2019, 12:07:34 PM
If you want to clean up the intake try using a citrus based degreaser and just let it soak in it for a day or two. If that doesn't get it then try something like Citristrip and brush it on and let it sit for a couple days. This will take it down to raw aluminum so you will want to use a good degreaser, prime and then paint. Another option is if the intake runners are pretty clean on the inside take it to a powder coater and let them media blast it and powder coat it. So its elbow grease, your time, and a little money or drop it off and pay for it.
Thanks you suggestion to use citrus degreaser, I’m going to try it on the lower intake. I looked in to having the upper intake media blasted, $55 was the charge not sure if this is high or low, but I want to keep this a budget build so if I can avoid paying that I will.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 03, 2019, 12:42:53 PM
As others have said just use the Explorer engine. Add a Fox oil pan & pickup, Fox damper, Fox distributor, and a set of GT40P headers and you'll be all set.
If possible change the cam to something else. That will require a MAF conversion as well. If going that route I'd recommend 24lb injectors and a matching MAF.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 04, 2019, 10:43:41 AM
As others have said just use the Explorer engine. Add a Fox oil pan & pickup, Fox damper, Fox distributor, and a set of GT40P headers and you'll be all set.
If possible change the cam to something else. That will require a MAF conversion as well. If going that route I'd recommend 24lb injectors and a matching MAF.
I picked up a MAF off of a 89 mustang I just have to track down the computer which is challenging to get it for a fair price.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Outsidedog on October 04, 2019, 04:46:35 PM
Oh yes people are proud of their A9Ls and A9Ps and anything GUFB. I got lucky a few years ago with a Craigslist one. For $200.
Also if you haven't already found or made one LMR has the conversion harness I bought, makes it a little easier to wire up:
You are looking for the following EEC's for a 89-93 5.0 Mustang MAF with 19 lb/hr injectors: A9l - 5 speed only A3M - 5 speed only A9P - Auto but will work on a 5 speed
If you want an EEC factory calibrated for 24 lb/hr injectors then you will need the one from a '93 Cobra and the MAF from a Cobra. EEC is a X3Z and only works with a 5 speed.
Typically I can find the non-cobra EEC's for $125 to $150 on the Mustang sites. The Cobra units are way less common so I have no idea there.
You can run larger injectors with the non-Cobra EEC's but it will require a MAF from Pro-M or the like calibrated for the size injector you want to run. Its that or get a chip like SCT.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Outsidedog on October 04, 2019, 10:06:37 PM
Or you can use this walkthrough on how to do it yourself:
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 05, 2019, 01:03:03 PM
I was tearing the engine down today and I drop a piston! Theres’s a ding. Should I replace it or will it be fine?
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Outsidedog on October 05, 2019, 11:02:55 PM
Personally, I'd say don't sweat it, I've seen worse work fine. but try not to drop anymore :smile:
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 06, 2019, 09:50:37 AM
Just scored some used shorty headers with new gasket $65. I plan to wrap headers instead of painting.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Masejoer on October 06, 2019, 11:54:32 AM
That lower intake isn't tapped for the air charge temperature (ACT) sensor (bank 5). You will want to take the intake to a machine shop, or get a different lower.
I wouldn't try a hand drill and tap, but that's also possible.
That said, the computer doesn't use ACT changes for much.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Outsidedog on October 06, 2019, 12:08:25 PM
So I know sometimes there's issues with GT40P heads and headers. Haven't personally been through it but something about spark plug interference with aftermarket headers? Maybe put them up to the heads and made sure everything is fine? I may be mistaken. Either way that's a good price for those headers.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Masejoer on October 06, 2019, 07:42:37 PM
So I know sometimes there's issues with GT40P heads and headers. Haven't personally been through it but something about spark plug interference with aftermarket headers? Maybe put them up to the heads and made sure everything is fine? I may be mistaken. Either way that's a good price for those headers.
Yes, the spark plug angle is a pain. My FMS headers I needed to use a modified socket to install/remove some spark plugs with gt40p heads, and a wrench on one iirc. I was very happy to get back to a normal spark plug angle with TW170 heads.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 06, 2019, 09:15:30 PM
Yeah I knew about the spark plug issue when I was researching for my build, I’m keeping my build “budget friendly” so there will be some trade offs.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 06, 2019, 10:13:45 PM
When my car had GT40P heads I had no problem getting to any of the plugs using a spark plug socket and a box end wrench on the end of the socket instead of a ratchet. I ran Ford Racing GT40P headers with the GT40P heads. I actually still use them with the Edelbrock heads. They are stainless steel so I saw no need for new headers when I changed heads.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 07, 2019, 09:27:45 AM
About to order H pipe with catalytic converters, In Pa we have emission inspections, I’m wondering if anyone had issues with exhaust codes running converters with h pipe and GT40p heads.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Masejoer on October 07, 2019, 10:13:59 AM
When I last had emissions 5+ years ago, the gt40p heads ran perfectly clean. All the results were very low. This was without smog air pump, using a (new) bbk mid pipe with cats. Just run base timing (10 degrees) and you should pass without issues, as long as you aren't sucking excessive oil into the intake (blowby, pcv valve), your ignition is good, and the motor is warmed up (getting good hot air out of the dash).
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: mcb82gt on October 07, 2019, 11:55:50 AM
When my car had GT40P heads I had no problem getting to any of the plugs using a spark plug socket and a box end wrench on the end of the socket instead of a ratchet. I ran Ford Racing GT40P headers with the GT40P heads.
I'm sure you had no problems, you were lucky enough to get the Special Headers. I cant find those ford pieces anymore.
I wont use the py MAC P headers, for their crazy price.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 07, 2019, 12:53:16 PM
When my car had GT40P heads I had no problem getting to any of the plugs using a spark plug socket and a box end wrench on the end of the socket instead of a ratchet. I ran Ford Racing GT40P headers with the GT40P heads.
I'm sure you had no problems, you were lucky enough to get the Special Headers. I cant find those ford pieces anymore.
I wont use the py MAC P headers, for their crazy price.
You want to talk about a crazy price how about $400 for a 89 mustang A9p ecm. I think I’m going to go with a unit from autozone ( warranty, free shipping no questions ask returns) a little over $200 plus a think I got a 20% code somewhere.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Masejoer on October 07, 2019, 07:10:41 PM
When my car had GT40P heads I had no problem getting to any of the plugs using a spark plug socket and a box end wrench on the end of the socket instead of a ratchet. I ran Ford Racing GT40P headers with the GT40P heads.
I'm sure you had no problems, you were lucky enough to get the Special Headers. I cant find those ford pieces anymore.
I wont use the py MAC P headers, for their crazy price.
You want to talk about a crazy price how about $400 for a 89 mustang A9p ecm. I think I’m going to go with a unit from autozone ( warranty, free shipping no questions ask returns) a little over $200 plus a think I got a 20% code somewhere.
Yeah, the used eec-iv prices are terrible. A Megasquirt plug-and-play unit is only $800-850 for what is likely a far better computer. Beats $400 for ecu, $250 for programmer board, $200 for programming software, etc.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Outsidedog on October 08, 2019, 07:31:01 PM
Auto zone by you has some?! Buy them up! No parts store around here has any and can't ever get me any. It will probably be A1 Cardone, which when I'm working on a customers car I always tell the service writer if they're getting cardone better get me three because the first two will be junk. However, when my car was speed density and I HO swapped I bought a DA1 cardone from oreilly that worked great.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 09, 2019, 02:42:19 PM
So I do not have the part numbers for the majority of the EEC's but I have never had to use anything but the ones listed to find what I needed. I would stay away from the California EEC's unless you have a California car as the rumor is they are less aggressive in tuning due to the stricter emission requirements. Also, the three or four digits in large letters on the EEC's label are referred to as "catch codes".
Maybe this will help your search.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 10, 2019, 07:24:51 AM
So I do not have the part numbers for the majority of the EEC's but I have never had to use anything but the ones listed to find what I needed. I would stay away from the California EEC's unless you have a California car as the rumor is they are less aggressive in tuning due to the stricter emission requirements. Also, the three or four digits in large letters on the EEC's label are referred to as "catch codes".
Maybe this will help your search.
This list is like I struck gold! Thanks Aerocoupe Going to replace all the engine bolts any recommendations for complete bolt kits. Or is it better to buy individually?
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: Aerocoupe on October 10, 2019, 03:53:33 PM
For the internals (main, rod, head, & rocker arm) would only use ARP. Stud the mains and the heads. People tell me that they do not want to stud the heads as it does not allow for removal in the car. All you have to do is use two regular (grade 5) nuts for jam nuts and then remove each stud like a bolt. I also used ARP on the timing gear to cam and the cam plate to block.
One externals I used ARP kits for the timing chain cover & water pump and on the oil pan as well as an ARP bolt on the harmonic balancer to crank. For the lower intake on my Coupe (injected) and intake manifold on the Bird (carbed) I used the same coarse threaded by fine threaded studs that I found at O'Riellys. For the bolting on the upper intake I used studs that I ordered from McMaster/Carr. I also have stainless steel all-thread studs that you install with an allen key for the valve covers. All of the accessory brackets on the front of the motor are the stock Ford fasteners.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 11, 2019, 12:16:15 PM
Back in the day (2008) I was looking for an A9P. A local mechanic my parents used to use had a whole shelf of computers from 80's and 90's cars he sped. He kept them in case he needed one. So I asked if I could go looking through the stack for a 5.0 Mustang computer. He said sure. I found an A9P in the stack and asked how much he wanted for it. He told me I could have it for nothing, he didn't need it. So I got the A9P, that's still in my Thunderbird, for free.
If I had know these things would be like gold 10 years later I would have tried to find more.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: 88BlueBird on October 11, 2019, 07:20:58 PM
Back in the day (2008) I was looking for an A9P. A local mechanic my parents used to use had a whole shelf of computers from 80's and 90's cars he sped. He kept them in case he needed one. So I asked if I could go looking through the stack for a 5.0 Mustang computer. He said sure. I found an A9P in the stack and asked how much he wanted for it. He told me I could have it for nothing, he didn't need it. So I got the A9P, that's still in my Thunderbird, for free.
If I had know these things would be like gold 10 years later I would have tried to find more.
I have a factory A9P all original in my car also and a functional (I've tried it) Cardone unit as a backup. Glad I got the backup about 10 yrs ago, seems they are getting hard to find resulting in prices going up.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 14, 2019, 10:56:15 AM
I give up on finding this computer, I’m just going to buy it from autozone. I’ve been working on cleaning up my new parts. Wire wheel has been working great so far.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 15, 2019, 01:04:33 PM
Cleaning the carbon off pistons. I’m using PB Blaster( I ran out of WD-40) with fine steel wool.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: 88BlueBird on October 15, 2019, 03:29:23 PM
Ford gray high temp engine paint works well for the upper intake manifold. I used it on mine about 10 yrs ago and it's still holding up great.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 16, 2019, 08:19:11 PM
Ford gray high temp engine paint works well for the upper intake manifold. I used it on mine about 10 yrs ago and it's still holding up great.
That looks good, nice and clean. Man, trying to pic colors for my engine is a project to it self. But I’m leaning towards a blue block, water pump and heads with black ford racing valve covers not sure yet about upper and lower intakes. My engine now.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 17, 2019, 12:16:58 AM
Ford blue block, heads, lower intake. Black upper intake and Cobra valve covers. Looks good, in my car at least.
Title: Re: Build approval someone please!
Post by: count on October 18, 2019, 12:32:10 PM
So I was thinking to myself about how I should approach this rebuild. I have a friend that is letting me use his garage so initially I was going to do just the engine but then I got to thinking that at some point I’m going to have to pull this trans and rebuild that too, so while I have the space to work maybe I should take full advantage of my space I’m using. I already got an 8.8 rear with 3.73 gears that I’m starting to work on now it’s so funny how you can start off doing one thing and then you fall into a rabbit hole. But the way I understand it, is that each system (engine, trans, and Differential) depends on the other for optimum performance.