'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Topic: '88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap. (Read 19584 times) previous topic - next topic

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #30 – March 24, 2015, 11:34:27 PM

thunderbirdsport--
With all due respect, you are incorrect.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #31 – March 25, 2015, 12:37:18 AM

Prove me wrong with factual, verified information.

I've heard some pretty dumb shiznit about it too, everything from Mustang fools who say that Ford designed it, so that's reason enough to put it into a Mustang, up to the line that GM paid so much money to Ford for it, that GM ended up needing the bailouts while Ford was making serious bank.

It's all shiznite. It's a GM design, through and through. Yes, they likely had some Ford engines to poke around on while doodling on paper, but I can also assure you that the LS has a deep skirt block and other things not on a Windsor engine, or even on any one Ford engine in particular, at that.

Yes, there's only so much "new" once can dig up in a pushrod V8...pretty soon it's like a Glock....sooner or later, someone else will come up with a similar style, and then the nutswingers on both sides will call foul, ripped off idea, or claim that someone else copied a previous design.

Again, show me the proof....

Just so you know, I've read the drama from both GM and Ford boards, I was intrigued, so I dug a lot deeper, and found jack shiznit to prove that the LS is an out and out copy of any one engine design. Unless you count the number of cylinders, valves, heads, and spark plugs.

I've been incorrect before...I can handle being incorrect again. But I'll wager a 20 dollar bill I'm not wrong this time.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #32 – March 25, 2015, 02:15:10 AM

Quote

I'm just nervous of what I'd have to do to the fuel system, brake and front suspension. Then there's the drive shaft, transmission. Gives me the horrors.

If these things truly give you the horrors, then this probably isn't a swap you will want to do. Those are some of the most straight forward things you will run into.

Fuel. If the donor car is a returnless system, send the pcm in to have it set up for a return system, which is what your car already is. I am guessing that with a good pump the rest of the stock system will fuel a run of the mill DOHC 4.6. Also have any antitheft systems removed from the pcm. I am not sure but I think Ford went returnless in 1999 or 2000.

Brakes. You will need a hydro boost system. Get one from a sn95 mustang, also get the flca's, spindles and brakes. You will have to move the pin on the brake pedal arm up the appropriate amount and mount the hydro boost to line up with it. Use an adjustable proportioning valve for the rear brakes.

Front Suspension. I am using coil overs, otherwise do some searching and get a set of springs to suit the ride and height you want. It make take some trial and error to find the right spring.

Drive shaft. Plenty of places that make custom drive shafts. They will ask for the info they need to get it done.

Transmission. I would recommend the donor car route. Get the motor, trans, wiring and sensors, pcm, all from the same car. May need to make a custom trans mount, or an adjustable ford motorsport mount may do the trick.

K member. Again, get one from a sn95 mustang with a 4.6. Trim the lower mounts and relocate the holes. Use a 3/8-1/2" shim between the k member and rails at the upper bolt location.

Now it's bolted into the car and the real fun begins. Wiring, cruise control, air cond, exhaust, gauges, cooling. All of these things will need to be custom or need some sort of modifications. In my build thread I have or am working on solutions to all of these things. Depending on what you want these solutions may or may not work for you, that's the fun part, there is not one way it has to be done, and things often change many times before it's all said and done. Better yet until it's road worthy and tested it's not done.

Quote

Overall whatever the OP does to get rid of the V6 it will be well worth it. I think for simplicity sake and time a 5.0 Windsor motor would be the way to go but if the OP has the time and the ability a DOHC or 5.0 Coyote motor would be bad ass under the hood.

Darren

That sums it up pretty well.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #33 – March 25, 2015, 12:37:18 PM

Thundersport--
I am sorry you don't like my answer, however facts are facts. Do you even know what an SK377 289 cylinder head looks like? Have you seen one? Not likely. Spoke to Ford engineers who actually designed this stuff? Possibly you haven't. I get my info directly from people I have been racing/engineers/friends from back in the day for 30 years. Please don't make hypercritical hearsay statements like "Yates designed the LS cylinder heads" also incorrect. And yes, the LS block IS a deep skirt Y design like the Ford FE and Chrysler Hemi. Please take note, I am not arguing your opinions, as we all have them.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #34 – March 25, 2015, 03:39:26 PM

Quote from: crossboss;446496

When we interviewed the Chevy engineers, they admitted "borrowing" the Ford design.

Who is "we" and what were you interviewing them for?

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #35 – March 25, 2015, 04:56:13 PM

I never thought I would have to post my resume on here..lol I am a motion picture/TV cameraman. "we" was the producers/production company I worked for when doing a show/archives for performance development segments a number of years ago. Quite possibly you may have seen older episodes of "Motor-Trend TV" and "Hot-Rod TV"

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #36 – March 25, 2015, 09:40:12 PM

Quote from: Aerocoupe;446495

figuring out the engine mounts. Exhaust would also be included as well as having to upgrade the front suspension (just springs just springs for the V8 motor).

So now you have a Mark VIII motor with less hp than a Coyote motor or a DOHC 4.6 motor and most likely getting your ass handed to you by a $4,000 to $5,000 dollar 5.0 Windsor swap car. Again, the Mark VIII motor would be really cool under the hood and with a little more $$$ will make some hp but you have more weight across the nose than the 5.0 Windsor so you have to make more hp to make up for it.

Darren

Uhhh, the MKVIII teksid engine is a ALL aluminum DOHC and it is close to the exact same weight as a stock 5.0. I'm going this route cause I like the idea of 4 valves per cylinder granted it's only rated at a limpy 280 hp. The LSC's were rated at a wimpy 290. I picked up my 93' MKVIII dohc for $500 running without any issues, 73k on the clock, and after sitting for 6 months... started right up without a single tick or puff of smoke.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #37 – March 27, 2015, 05:51:33 PM

All aluminum??? I did not know that at all so sure enough after some after shock Google searches all aluminum...pretty bad ass. Did you get motor, PCM, harness, and trans for $500?

Darren

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #38 – March 27, 2015, 10:03:51 PM

Yep, all that and the aluminum DS. Had I known I'd be going the 03' IRS route, I would've grabbed the center section as well for that price. All the 4V's with the exception of the terminators were aluminum although the later ones, 99+ I believe, were manufactured at a different location.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #39 – March 27, 2015, 11:31:01 PM

Quote from: 1BadBird;446581

Yep, all that and the aluminum DS. Had I known I'd be going the 03' IRS route, I would've grabbed the center section as well for that price. All the 4V's with the exception of the terminators were aluminum although the later ones, 99+ I believe, were manufactured at a different location.

The other DOHC 4.6 block is Ford's own WAP...

http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/1404-fords-46l-dohc-v8-explained-cammer-time/photo-06.html

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #40 – March 30, 2015, 04:33:35 AM

The motor I was thinking of would be a '97-98 Mark-VIII. I'd seen them on Ebay for around $700 or so, which is the only reason I even entertained the idea in the first place. I also thought of getting my hands on a 4R70W, or even a 4R75W transmission since both were used in the Marauder which uses the same engine. I also tossed around the idea of sticking the Turbo Coupe's rear end in for the bigger wheels, LS diff, and discs at the back. Assuming I keep it fairly cheap and service an Ebay engine and just sort out the suspension, fuel system, mounting, drive train, exhaust, ECU, and having the thing properly calibrated so I actually DO get 290HP or near it, what are the realistic costs here? Thanks for the responses guys, I do appreciate it.

Also a quick aside, let me know if any of you guys know much about putting the later OHC 4.6 from the Crown Vic (just before and a little after 2010) into a 2001 Grand Marquis. I thought about the 4V DOHC in there to sort of make it a Marauder, but not quite sure what else I'd have to do. Just new front springs? I know it's wider than the standard 4.6 OHC. I tried joining crownvic.com but my user profile has been pending for a year now and they have no E-mail for contacting the admins. Dad can't even access his profile anymore. Site's gone down the tubes man.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #41 – March 31, 2015, 10:36:47 AM

The problem with the 4.6 DOHC swap is the wiring because it's gonna be custom no matter what. At least with a 3v & coyote FRPP offers a swap harness and your starting with at least 300hp (3v).
Also, a brand new coyote crate motor starts at $6100 from Ford Racing and no matter what Stacey David says a Boss nine crate engine starts at $22,900.
For me, the biggest issue is the wiring because nearly everthing else mechanical is available to swap and or modify (obviously there are exceptions).

FYI as long as you use a 4.6 k-member the motor mounts are bolt in.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #42 – March 31, 2015, 04:19:23 PM

The wiring would be available as well - the SN95 Cobra (before the Terminator) had a 32V engine and was near enough to a Fox chassis to be usable. Probably be hard to find a donor car, though (But if you did you could get your cross member, suspension upgrades, etc from the same car)

It also wouldn't be particularly difficult to use the wiring from a Mark VIII. You'd need a diagram for the donor car, and you'd have to remove/add/lengthen/shorten wires, but it would not be rocket surgery...

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #43 – March 31, 2015, 08:10:35 PM

You can also use a wiring harness from a GT. You just have to reverse the wires for the coils. There are lots of those out there at the yards or if you can get a donor GT. I have the entire wiring w/5spd ecu from the donor car where I got my dash and some other parts.

'88 T-Bird 4.6 DOHC swap.

Reply #44 – April 01, 2015, 10:04:36 AM

I've seriously considered selling my Mustang and getting this for the Cougar.

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M6007M50/2011-Mustang-Ford-Racing-50L-Crate-Engine?utm_source=google-shopping&utm_medium=comparison-shopping&utm_campaign=google-shopping-v2&gclid=COLz5I6i1cQCFbIF7AodDRQAnw

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M6017A504V/2011-Mustang-Ford-Racing-50L-Crate-Engine-Controls-Pack

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/M8600M50BALT/Ford-Racing-Crate-Engine-Boss-302-Alternator-Kit-M-8600-M50B

Slap a Whipple on it, stick it in front of one of the new 6 speed autos, run low 10's and get great mileage on the highway. Oh, and no issue on long road trips.....