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Topic: Oil pan issues with windage tray (Read 544 times) previous topic - next topic

Oil pan issues with windage tray

Hey guys,

So I'm replacing the bottom end on my turbo coupe with the 302 swap.
Already had a good running 302 setup out of a 89 fox that was wrecked but had to pull the motor again due to a crack between two freeze plugs, was leaking coolant slowly so I have just been putting it off since I barely drive the car and the leak is real slow.

So I've got a solid bottom end almost ready to drop in with GT40x heads but the guy I got the bottom end from threw in a canton windage tray which I plan to install. Only issue I have now is getting it to fit under the pan. Engine is still in the stand until I get everything buttoned up.

So from what I found there are 2 types of double hump stock 302 oil pans, the style from sn95 5.0s or "thunderbird" style from what I've heard on mustang forums which has a v style in between the humps and a foxbody oil pan which is flat between the humps. My engine which originally came out of an 89 foxbody happens to have the V style for some reason and I believe that's why I'm having issues getting fitment correct.

So my real question if anybody knows is will the foxbody oil pan (flat style between humps) fit in an 87 bird with chuck motor mounts and still clear oil components as well as the rack and stuff in the engine bay?

All this is because I'd like to install the Canton 20-930 windage tray and I already went out and bought the ARP studs to get it to work and such.

Thanks guys
1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #1
Fox Stang oil pan should be the same as the stock fox tbird oilpan. The only difference is that the tbird pan has an extra low oil level sensor that the Stang pan doesn't
Quote from: jcassity
I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
Hooligans! 
1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
1986 cougar.
lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #2
I had swapped in a 5.0 out of an 86 Mustang GT into my 88T/C with no problem and I had also installed a windage tray with no issues. I was able to source original 5.0 Tbird motor mounts at that time, way back in 2002. Chuck’s motor mounts look more robust than the factory ones.
The double hump pan with the flat is what my 86 motor had.
Good luck with the swap and enjoy the 5.0 power!
My GT motor had the low level sensor in the pan.
Rick
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1988 T/C body with a 5.0 transplant. Motor has a Vortech V-2 supercharger, Edlebrock Performer RPM II intake, heads, FRPP F-303 cam, Comp Cams roller rockers, Power Pipe, LMAF, full Mac exhaust, lowered, Koni's, 5 lug conversion, Cobra wheels, 13" Cobra brakes, etc.
SOLD September 2020. Will miss this car after 19 years of building/driving/showing it off. Time for a new chapter in my life.
Dynoed 446 horse/409 torque at the wheels.
2003 Tenth Anniversary Cobra Convertible. 1 of 369 Torch Red made.
2012 F-250 Lariat Crew Cab 6.7 Powerstroke.

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #3
X2 on a stock Stang 5.0HO oil pan fitting in a '87-8 Tbird. I even had Chuck's mounts on mine, as well. No problemo.

'84, '87 Mustangs
'98 Explorer 5.0
'06 Explorer EB 4.6
'11 Expedition EL

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #4
I ran a windage tray in the stock bottom end of the 5.0 that came in my '83 Bird and I seem to remember my dad and I "massaging" it with a sand bag under it and a 2x4 with a shop hammer working the inside of the pan between the humps.  Didn't take much but you could see it under the car.  Pan never leaked but we went a little at a time.

Didn't have to do a thing to the stock pan on my '93 Coupe and that pan came off an roller motor Mustang motor (not sure of the year) as I bought the short block a long time ago and its long gone.

I also want to say I had to mess with the oil pickup line for the oil pump?

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #5
Awesome thanks guys.

I did receive a fox oil pan and it fit the windage tray perfect, just need to wait for some bolts to get this thing swapped back in.

Another quick question, I pulled the motor with the bell housing, clutch, etc.
So the rest of the drive train is still in the car: trans, driveshaft....
I had pulled it this way due to ease, only 4 bolts on tranny to bell housing but I know it'll be a pita to out back in this way due to the clutch.

What's the easiest way to get the motor back in?

I was thinking of putting the bell housing back onto the tranny while I hoist the motor back in or should I just pull the tranny and put it all in together as one unit.

Mind you I also have longtubes on my setup which were pulled with the motor in the first place and they'll be going back onto the car regardless.
1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #6
Pull the trans.  Install the motor with the clutch assembly installed and if you can the bell and shifter fork and if you have the control and additional room the trans.  I typically just installed the motor with the flywheel and clutch installed and the shorty headers.  Roll under the car and pop the bell housing and clutch fork on and than stab the T-5.  It just works easier for me that way at my dad's shop as we have a lift so it makes like a lot easier especially with the Bird and the TKO as that bitch is heavy.  If I had to do it on the ground I would try to stab it all at once and would also own one of those fancy engine angle devises:

https://www.otctools.com/products/engine-load-leveler

At some point I may buy this one as I have seen good reviews and all the parts are metal where some like all the harbor freight stuff has plastic handles and frankly just not made very well.

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #7
Right on, I'm thinking that's the way to go as well.

I wish it was as easy as just sticking in a T5 but I'm running a 3550 so she's got some weight lol.

I also do have one of those engine levelers but it's not that nice, just a harbor freight unit I believe but it's been holding up solid.

The one thing that bugs me is the length of the nose on bumper on 87/88s. I was able to pull it with the hoist rubbing on the front license plate bracket but putting it back in is more of a chore. I remember having to pull the front bumper/header panel before but I'd like to avoid that if possible.

Anybody have any tricks on this one?
1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #8
I forget the nose on the 87-88 cars is longer.  I was able to stab the 351W in the '83 with little to no effort and plenty of room up front.  Had the flywheel and clutch assembly on it but no bell or trans.  Went up on the lift and put the SROD bell on and then two of us stabbed the 31 spline TKO...suuuuuuucked.

If you have the boom extended all the way and the engine is fully dressed then I would not attach the trans.  Too much cantilever for that weight unless you have someone stand on the back of the engine hoist...yeah, not smart either but I have participated in that once or twice.

You could come from the side of the car which will require a higher lift but you will definitely gain some room.  If the hoist does not roll well then I would not attempt.  We did this on an older Dodge RT one time and it took three of us to move the hoist side ways (they don't like to roll side to side when loaded) to move the motor north and south in relation to the engine bay.  We just went really slow and small adjustments.

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #9
I pulled/ installed my 5.0 more than once into my 88 T/C with just the clutch/ flywheel installed. Added bell housing /clutch fork (cable style) using long extensions with swivel at socket end. Made a cradle out of wood, attached to floor jack that matched T-5 and hoisted tranny into place, all on my back, car on jack stands, bit of bitch, but very do-able. Strapped tranny to wood block adapter. I am 66 and did this in my 50’s. Be inventive and you can accomplish anything you put your mind to😳!!!
Rick
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1988 T/C body with a 5.0 transplant. Motor has a Vortech V-2 supercharger, Edlebrock Performer RPM II intake, heads, FRPP F-303 cam, Comp Cams roller rockers, Power Pipe, LMAF, full Mac exhaust, lowered, Koni's, 5 lug conversion, Cobra wheels, 13" Cobra brakes, etc.
SOLD September 2020. Will miss this car after 19 years of building/driving/showing it off. Time for a new chapter in my life.
Dynoed 446 horse/409 torque at the wheels.
2003 Tenth Anniversary Cobra Convertible. 1 of 369 Torch Red made.
2012 F-250 Lariat Crew Cab 6.7 Powerstroke.

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #10
Yeah, I'm thinking about just pulling the tranny regardless. I think I want to try ATF in the 3550 since it has carbon lined synchros so the synchromesh is getting dumped.

I would like to install everything as 1 piece and just bolt up the mounts and exhaust once I'm under the car, Just thinking about lining up the trans to the engine out of the car makes it worthwhile.

1987 T-Bird TC: 5-Spd, 5-lug conv., CHE Rear CAs, '04 Cobra wheels and 13" Brakes, Vac Assist conv: '93 Cobra BB/MC & Wilwood PV, Gutted/Knived Intakes, T3 turbo, RFE6 Mani, Stinger 3" Exhaust & Oil Feed, 255HP Walbro, Kirban AFPR, RR Cam, Esslinger Cam gear and Round Tooth Conv., Gillis Boost Valve, Speedway Dual Valve Spring,  K&N, 130a 3g Alt conv., 140mph Speedo
Running Better Than Ever :burnout:

 

Re: Oil pan issues with windage tray

Reply #11
So I have the carbon fiber synchros in my T5 and run a mix of AFT and gear oil.  I have been running this for over 15 years in the same trans with zero issues and I have beat the living hell out of my T5 with over 300 rwhp its entire life.  I got this trick from a guy that drag raced a stock class and he found that this mix made his T5's live a lot longer and he was launching at over 5,000 rpm on street radials.  He commented that under extreme conditions the ATF could not lubricate the gears like the gear oil can but just using gear oil was too thick.

I use (2) qts of Mobil 1 synthetic ATF and (1) qt of Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube (75W-90).  I put the gear oil in first and then add the ATF as the T5 typically will hold right at 2.75 qts.  I fill it through the shift hole when the trans is pulled as it is easier than under the car through the fill plug.

Anyhow, just thought I would pass it along.  When the trans was rebuilt in 2009 by Chris Neighbors in Houston he commented that it looked great.  I bought it used in 2000 and was moving to NE Texas and wanted to go through it and put a new clutch in before I made the move as Chris is a well known builder in the Houston area.  We added the Astro billet counter gear support plate and replaced all the bearings, seals, and synchros.  Needless to say it has been flawless the last 11 years with one reshimming of the input shaft but that is expected after a rebuild and everything settles in.  Some builders try and compensate for that on the initial build and can set them up way too tight.  I prefer to set them up on the tight side of the recommended range (0.001 to 0.005) at 0.002, run them a year or two and then pull it and check the end play.  Typically have to reshim to get them back down to 0.002 but this is a critical preload on T5's.

Anyhow, back to your thread and sorry for the hijack.  Sounds like you have a plan and post up how it runs after you get some time with it.

83 351W TKO'd T-Bird on the bottle


93 331 Mustang Coupe - 368 rwhp