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Topic: Building a "stump-puller" (Read 2645 times) previous topic - next topic

Building a "stump-puller"

This could've gone in general, engine tech, or swap.. but it just felt better in general.

As some here from the old board may remember, it was my goal to specifically craft a Bird setup that ran with power, but with fuel efficiency and quietness and manners. (most of the time.. I still wouldn't mind once in a great while just stepping on it out in the middle of nowhere from a dead stop.. I'm not completely dead yet.. heh) One of the foundations of that was to combine an AOD with a gear splitter for a second overdrive that would permit highway cruising at between 1600 and 2000 RPM, even with 3.5# gears in the rear end. ("#" because I often see them listed as 3.54 or 3.55.. not much difference I guess.. but # covers both possibilities) I'm not looking for alternatives to this setup.. I'm looking for the ways to do it right.

Even when talking to local friends who work or worked with cars, I have difficulty discussing this kind of project with them. I get comments that are often completely opposite of and counter-productive to what I want or need. It seems that most engine builders (for cars, anyway.. I don't hang around truck forums) are after the higher RPM stuff. I don't care if whatever engine goes into the project 'Bird never makes it past 5000 RPM. I want something that can pull hard at low revs all day without a problem.

So far, I've guessed that I'm probably looking at some form of truck/RV cam.. and maybe even (WAY down the road, due to current financial concerns) a supercharger setup tuned for low revs. (like idle-4500 RPM vs. 2000-6000) But what about some of the other details? Head changes.. porting and polishing.. header and exhaust selection.. what details change when you're not looking to rev the  out of an engine?

I suppose I'm looking to make something that'll remind me of the old 390/300-horse FE in the Galaxie I had long ago.. but do it out of a SEFI (-converted) 351W. I *might* also consider working with the 302 I now own, but I'd rather use the Windsor.

I realize it might be wise to invade a truck forum and ask these questions.. however, I've been around you people long enough to know that many of you probably have a pretty good shot at answering this stuff.. even if that's not how you build your cars. I'm not looking for specifics.. brand names, stuff like that.. I'm looking for ways of doing things toward a goal. I'm also looking to spark a little discussion.. things seemed to be slowing down around here a little bit, with the exception of the political stuff yesterday and today. (and the whole ies thing.. which I'm still not complaining about) :p

Re: Building a "stump-puller"

Reply #1 –
To kinda get things rollin the truck/RV cam will be the way to go. Also you want some small port heads with just some minor clean up, no full port job. Why??? To make power down low, you have to have good velocity through the intake runners and heads. A set of Iron GT40 heads will be just the ticket. Your biggest problem will be finding a high velocity intake for a 5.8 that will fit under the hood of your Bird, as all I know of are built for higher rpms. Probably you'll have to wind up with a Lightning/GT40 setup.

After posting the above, I just realized you want to build something like the '93-'95 351 Lightning F150 Truck engine. Those breathe very good(GT40 heads), but have a rather mild cam.

Re: Building a "stump-puller"

Reply #2 –
OK, I see the no full port job.. but what about just gasket-matching and a 3-angle? Does that come under your "minor clean-up" recommendation?

I've considered the Lightning's engine. If I had the cash, I could even pick up an entire engine plus wiring from the brother of a friend. But for now, I'll probably just have to make the 351 I have work. The top end is from a carbed '87 Econoline, but the block is 10 years newer. Also not the cheapest thing to get it the way I'd want it, (SEFI, etc.) but one in the hand and all that happy horse-.

Also, what beyond the head and intake stuff? Headers/exhaust, for example. I was already considering tri-Ys, aftermarket hi-flow cats, (sorry, can't talk me out of it.. I'm not an emissions-fascist, but I will at least TRY to make this a reasonable car in that department) and maybe some of the quieter performance lers out there. (Flowmaster 50s, I think was what came to mind.. stuff like that) If I had done this project on the '86 Bird, I would've gone large-diameter (3 to 3 1/2") single exhaust.. but this '88 has factory duals.. so I'll stick with that.

Anything else jump to mind?

Re: Building a "stump-puller"

Reply #3 –
What other kind of driveline mods are you planning since you're looking for torque "right now"?
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo

Re: Building a "stump-puller"

Reply #4 –
How much do you want to know? I mean like, just more engine and tranny stuff, or even so far as body changes/reinforcements? I'll be improving quite a bit over the next couple years in all departments.

Other engine stuff that's likely: (even if not really relevant to the topic)
MSD 6BTM or 6AL, depending on whether or not I supercharge
appropriate MSD coil for TFI
one of the "quiet(er)" gear drives
Milodon 7-qt. oil pan and appropriate pickup
(I may edit in more as I recall.. just having my coffee now, and my brain is fried)

The AOD will get the "A" servo if it doesn't already have it, a Baumann shift kit, a higher-capacity pan, a dedicated trans cooler, and the appropriate tailshaft alterations to accomodate the Gear Vendors auxiliary overdrive unit, which will give me the second (actually three, but one is redundant) overdrive option. If I find out that the Gear Vendors electronics are able to be integrated with something like a Baumannator TCS, I may just try to switch to a newer electronic transmission.. at least the AOD-E. If that were to be the case, apply whatever appropriate mods from the AOD section above to that transmission, instead of modding the AOD.

The Gear Vendors unit itself is basically a two-speed transmission about the size of a coffee can.. it gives 1:1 and overdrive. (.67 or something like that, I don't have the number handy) Basically between the two overdrive gears, I would get something like .55:1 coming off the back of the transmission.

I'm doing a little casual poking around through friends to see if I can locate whatever junkyard(s) in the area gets the police and taxi Crown Vics, to see if I can snag one of their aluminum driveshafts.

The rear end is still somewhat open to change. Right now it has a 2.73 open 7.5". I think that'll be changed to a 3.55 8.8" with a PowerTrax locker or Eaton posi.. but I'm not 100% sure on that yet.

Body modifications would most likely include subframe connectors, (welded in, of course) torque box reinforcement, strut tower brace, Mustang tubular K-member and A-arms. If anything else would be a good idea to do while I have the interior gutted, reinforcement-wise, I'm open to suggestions there. On a side note, I'd like to consider having a small simple pop-up sunroof put in, but I realize that it will compromise the structure somewhat. I'd like to find ways to compensate for that, if possible, while taking care of the other structural reinforcements. EDIT: I also wouldn't mind lowering the car just a little bit.. maybe an inch or so. Don't want to go too far if I'm going to have that deeper trans pan under there, and stuff like that.

Yeah, I know I'm talking about getting up into spending that could just be saved up for a new car.. but I'd rather have a T-bird done the way I want it than just about any new car right now. (none that I can think of that I want, anyway)

Did I miss anything that you were hoping to hear? I probably forgot several details. Still haven't finished my coffee.

Re: Building a "stump-puller"

Reply #5 –
I was just curious what you had planned.  I was seeing if you were planning on building a complete car, or just a motor.

You might also look into some newish Rangers for an AL d/s.  I'm not 100% positive on the s, but I grabbed one from a 00-01 Ranger when I did the 2.3T swap in my 87 Ranger.  It's Al and 4" in diameter.  I thought the C-vic ones were a composite, or some other wierd compsotion that might make shortening them a bit difficult, but I could be wrong on that..I don't remember from when we had all the C-Vics in at KBs.

As far as spending enough money to have bought a new car...screw that..I'll spend my money and build something I want.
Long live the 4-eyes!  - '83 Tbird Turbo

Re: Building a "stump-puller"

Reply #6 –
if you use a long runner intake like the gt-40 from a lightning you can use a little more cam than most truck/rv cams and still have really good low end trq. Id recomend finding some used gt-40 heads and a gt40 intake of a 351 (they also put gt-40 351 w in some boats) but if you want it to realy have big lowend you need a positive displacement supercharger.
Also are you dead set on a slushbox? If not a t-56 6 speed has 2 overdrive gears might be worth a thought. good luck!

Re: Building a "stump-puller"

Reply #7 –
Yes, I am dead-set on a slushbox. Had a stick for the last ten years, and I'm a little tired of 'em. I even intend to keep this one column-shift, because it's different from every other car I've ever owned. :D