Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: tommym on August 24, 2020, 06:25:38 PM

Title: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 24, 2020, 06:25:38 PM
Has any one tried to use the Terminator X to replace their A9L,P? Thinking of buying one.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 24, 2020, 09:59:44 PM
If its anything like their sniper efi system it will be a good choice. From what I've read about the system is it replaces the factory harness with OE style connectors then has a holley ecu that comes with a similar handheld to the sniper. You set your parameters and let her learn.

I have the sniper 650 and I love it. Coupled with the msd dual sync distributor I can change timing without even popping the hood.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 25, 2020, 11:46:54 AM
Thanks Clayton. I have zero experience with this new tech and it scares me a little. I have been trying to read up on the Terminator X and it seems to be the answer to the tuning issues with the A9L. There is no one here in Las Vegas able to work with it. I'm a little hesitant to make the change because the tech aspect is way over my head. I posted a list of what I have in the TC in another post about the Mega Squirt in this forum. The car runs great as it is but I'm pretty sure it can be better. The other thing is, with the Terminator X, I can keep my Ford fuel injection.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 26, 2020, 06:03:56 PM
From what I've read its designed to be plug and play and has the same 3.5" display that comes with the sniper. If it has the same setup wizard as the sniper its a piece of cake to set up. The only thing I had to wire for the unit I've got was a 12v+ and a ground straight to the battery, a 12v key on and crank wire and a wire to the fuel pump positive (and it already was ran through a relay)

The great thing about holley products is the plethora of tech articles, install videos and support.

https://lmr.com/item/HLY-550937F/mustang-fox-body-holley-terminator-x-efi-kit-87-93?gclid=CjwKCAjwkJj6BRA-EiwA0ZVPVj_lzZrMnSj8hiXBtjm0oVhmWCSVAqYtjfIk-X3iUwxI9zt-L7jm8hoCJlwQAvD_BwE


Heres an install video on a mustang thats pretty close to the same steps I had to take with my sniper unit. There are a few differences but damn close
https://youtu.be/ld2yUFY_dp0
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Beau on August 26, 2020, 07:49:21 PM
Goddamn, I think I'll get one, myself.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 27, 2020, 12:59:55 PM
Thanks for the information Clayton. That video will help a lot. I've done wiring on this car forever it seems. Changing from the 4cyl to the 5.0, removing the Teves brakes, wiring to the package tray I don't need and interior wiring on the latest remodel. I'll give Holley a call and talk to their resident expert and see about ordering it. Want to make sure I get everything I need. From what I've read the handheld can only go so far but you need a laptop for some adjustments. Looks like guys have had problems with the cam selection feature and timing. Did you run into the same problem?
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 27, 2020, 01:34:23 PM
That Holley system looks nice and seems fairly easy to install. I'd also look at the Pro-M system, but it's twice as much:  http://www.promracing.com/pro-m-efi-engine-management-system-for-1986-fox-body-mustang.html

Either seems like a decent way to go. I haven't really thought seriously about either one since my car runs well with the A9P.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 27, 2020, 02:05:00 PM
Thanks for the information Clayton. That video will help a lot. I've done wiring on this car forever it seems. Changing from the 4cyl to the 5.0, removing the Teves brakes, wiring to the package tray I don't need and interior wiring on the latest remodel. I'll give Holley a call and talk to their resident expert and see about ordering it. Want to make sure I get everything I need. From what I've read the handheld can only go so far but you need a laptop for some adjustments. Looks like guys have had problems with the cam selection feature and timing. Did you run into the same problem?

You're welcome!

I have had no issues with my unit. There are some minor tweaks that need to be made with a laptop but the majority of the tune done with the Wizard. I will most likely have someone dyno tune it later on down the road when I get the rest of my nitrous system done just because that is unfamiliar territory for me all the way around and I want it right.

The cam choice I made was the street strip and that is for the TFS-2 cam and it seems to be holding its own fairly well since it pulls about 10-11 lbs at idle

The only issue I've had is something that just needs to be dialed in and that's the decel fuel cut off, when it sees more than a 200rpm drop it cuts fuel and it wigs out and goes lean for a moment and stumbles but will usually pick itself back up. I've only had it stall a couple times because of it and I kind of deserved it doing dumb stuff. Hitting the limiter in 1st and pushing in the clutch and coasting kind of dumb stuff. So going from a 7k redline to idle really quickly kind of wigs it out
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 27, 2020, 05:44:39 PM
The cam I used is far from radical. Comp Cams XE266HR-12, 266/274, 544/555. 1600-5600rpm. Computer compatible and works with 373 gears. 11in vac but I use a vac reservoir.  Just something I can enjoy driving. Back in my drag racing days I had a couple that were impossible to drive on the street. Young and very dumb. Sounds like your motor is pretty wild. Use it for drag racing?

Once I get done with the install there are a couple of shops I can take it to for fine tuning. That is my main goal. I would like to learn fine art of tuning for myself. Timing and fuel control.

When I get started I will post pictures and a description to help anyone interested in this type of swap. I know I'll have plenty of questions as I go. Are you using a single wideband O2 sensor on the drivers side?

One thing I am planning to do is install a Kenne Bell sometime in the far future. That is one of the reasons for my interest in the Terminator X.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 27, 2020, 07:59:03 PM
My build isn't radical, but she is a bit rowdy for a street car  :toothless:

The stock cam or street strip choice would be ok for you then. Its pretty much determined by how much vacuum it pulls to get a generic tune set.

My single wideband is in the passenger side header that part doesn't matter

The tuning is what I like about it. Trying to get someone to tune the ecu from a 30+ year old car is starting to become a lost art
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 28, 2020, 07:01:50 PM
Just finished reading your build post. Amazing work. Like the suspension. You planning to road race it?  My car is pretty tight, all new front end parts, 14-1 rack and pump to match. I would like to use the front end you have. Don't know if it would make taking out my 8qt pan any easier. The rear is an 8.8, 373, CHE upper and lower CA's. Still using all 4 shocks. Have a couple of 40lb bags of river rock in the trunk. I'll see if it helps with traction in the morning on the way to cars and coffee. Car sets perfectly level. 9in from the ground to the bottom of the roll pan. Have to be careful backing onto the street, only 1in clear on the exhaust tips. Since we built the frame connectors, welded in place, there is zero flex.

Can't believe you had so many problems with the FiTech. They are pretty popular out here. Mostly on Chebbys. Had some friends try and convince me I should try it. I didn't want to go to throttle body injection.

I'll be calling Holley Monday morning to talk with their Terminator X "expert?". Just want to make sure I have all the parts I need. Excited and scared to get started.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 28, 2020, 09:08:50 PM
Thanks man! I wanted an all purpose street car. Something I could take down the strip and go fast, something that would could chase some cones down in some scca stuff eventually.

The k-member is a granatelli piece which is a ripoff of the maximum motorsports design. When it shipped to me it was 85# coil overs included the factory piece is like 140# without springs.

The fitech was nice while it lasted. But when I started having issues the part that made me jump ship is the fact I called tech support every day for 2 weeks and got an answer 3 times.

The holley experts will be a big help. And I think its going to be easier than you think. Have no fear it can always be put back to stock.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 28, 2020, 10:04:36 PM
Your car is pretty good. I was lucky with my car, found a nice disaster. My wife was T-boned in my original Sport Coupe, totaled it. Had it since new. I love these cars so had to find another. This was Oct 03.

Found a project car the guy had given up on. He was a Ford Mechanic! Anyway he had started to convert the 2.3 to a 5.0. Used all the parts off a 88 LSC, all used. The wiring in the whole car was butchered everywhere I looked. The car actually kind of ran. Took me 2 years to get it running the way it was supposed to. All wiring was done as if Ford put the 5.0 in the TC. It was finally road worthy in Nov 05. I was working also, why it took so long. Mechanic friends would drop by, see the wiring all over shake their heads, wish me luck and walk away. Wife would poke her head out once in a while- "Are we ever going to be able to drive that car?" Wish I knew about Ron Francis Wiring then instead of taking the wiring out of the old Sport. Thank God I had the EVTM and all the Ford schematics- all 34 pages. 2.3, 3.8, 5.0 all mixed together. It was like automotive electric by Common Core.

This last remodel, all new drivetrain, fuel system, brake system, frame, was done from Aug 18 to Nov 18 working on it 10hrs a day, 6 days a week. (I had quit work prior to this build). After I did the A/C, Frostbite radiator, 10 blade fan, Cobra clutch car would still rum warm. I always had an idea for a cowl hood, had the Sport hood in the shed for 15 yrs. Went to several body shops, told me it couldn't be done. My buddy Ron and I were at Pick a Part scrounging parts and Ron wanted to get a hood. He also told me I was nuts. Anyway, Ron builds custom cars for himself. A master at fabrication. Decided this was a challenge. The 2in cowl hood on my TC is the end result. I knew there was vacuum pressure at the base of the windshield and if I had a cowl hood it would help evacuate the hot air under the hood. Theory proven, works like I thought it would. With the A/C on, 100*+, car stays around 180-190*. You can feel the heat if the windows down. By the way how much fun is it driving with that 5in cowl? Road racing will be a challenge.

Do you think I would be able to pull my 8qt pan with a K member like yours?
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 29, 2020, 07:45:48 AM
Seeing around the 5" is a challenge. I'm used to it now. I make some pretty wide right turns if I'm unfamiliar with the area.

As for getting an oil pan off, your odds may be better but I'm willing to bet you're going to have to lift the engine up still to clear the oil pump. But it would be feasible to remove the pan a boat load easier than with the factory k member
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 29, 2020, 04:47:57 PM
Thanks Clayton. I'll save the K member for the next project. I'll probably go with the MM one. I am using the LSC motor mounts not the TBird donuts. Will this K member work or should I get one for the LSC?  Had to raise the motor up 3/8in for the front sump to clear the rack. I used a Hamberger pan but kept the dipstick in the engine block. If it settles back down I might end up getting the Canton pan instead. The front sump is more square. What type of pan are you using?

Took the car out, woke up the neighborhood, this morning. The "ballast" works good. My problem is that the trans I used has a 335 first, probably should have a 295 first to keep from spinning the tires. I'll reconsider when I break it.

I'll bet that 5in cowl will be a joy on a SCCA track. Even my 2in raised cowl makes a difference finding the right front.

Had a guy stop by at cars and coffee, told me I wrecked the car. Gave me an earful. A Turbo Coupe purist.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Beau on August 29, 2020, 07:12:25 PM
Had a guy stop by at cars and coffee, told me I wrecked the car. Gave me an earful. A Turbo Coupe purist.
 A few years ago, I posted on 4 Eyed Prudes that I was gonna have to use an '87-93 dash in my 84 (all I had at the time), and several guys jumped my ass about it. I mouthed off some stuff about them buying the proper dash and haven't been back...

If I wasn't such an anti-GM sort, I'd throw an LS in to really piss 'em off.

Just my nature to be contrary, I guess. My car...I'll do what the fuck I want. Same as with anyone else. ;)
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 29, 2020, 07:53:27 PM
The MM k member is set up for mustang mounts and I just stuck with them. I couldn't really speak on the lsc stuff. I am running a stock pan right now, but want to upgrade to a canton or something a bit better later on. And with the MM k-member there is no provisions for regular coil springs so you'll have to go coil over. I also had to shim the k-member 1/2" at the frame rails to fit correctly so in turn had to shim the engine up at the motor mounts 1/2"

Thats good that you got the spinning figured out. Mine hasn't spun since I got rid of the old nitto 555's which is nice but also a letdown at the same time when I'm trying to show off.

The cowl isn't horrible. It's definitely and obstacle but after the first few drives I got used to it but with the high rise and nitrous plate and air cleaner a 3" wouldnt have been enough so I kind of screwed myself because the whole aircleaner is above the fender line lol

Ive never had an angry purist approach me but if I did I would probably shake his/her hand and ask him/her where his/her car was and if he wanted to race haha
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 30, 2020, 01:44:16 AM
I'm a little partial too, it's my car and I made it better. I definitely have way more money in the car than it's worth but I don't care. As long as I been in Las Vegas I've never seen another 80 anything Turbo Coupe at any car show. It is a little bad when you have a kid come up to you and say- "My grandfather had one of those". The purist I've talked to have never had a car out. Maybe they dream about having one. I think you have more pride in your car when you know you built it.

The kids today want instant gratification so you see a lot of new Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers. They all have pretty LED lights, graphics, billet knobs, painted engine covers, etc. Very seldom do you see someone who built their car.

When I change the K member I'll go with whatever mounts work. Why did you have to shim the K member? Does the motor stay in the same position?

For tires I have BFG g Force Comp 2, 245/45/ZR17. Fit the rims perfect, zero sidewall bulge. Nice strong bead. Spinning the tires every time you leave a stop light does get old. The "ballast" calmed that down. The car is pretty loud, with that and burning rubber attracts cops like shit and flies around here.

One of the guys I used to drag race with hated Chebbys with a passion. So he drove a 55 Chebby 2 door and a 57 Chebby station wagon. Both black and both had 440 Chryslers with a Torqueflite, and Dana 60's.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 30, 2020, 09:30:43 AM
I 100% agree that you have more pride in something you build yourself. Especially if its a car the off the beaten path. One you actually have to research the parts you put on it and most of the time have to modify a little bit to get to work.

I had to shim my k-member 1/2" down from the rails because the lower mount on the k-member interfered with the subframe and a spacer fixed it up. Had to space the engine up 1/2" to make up the difference so I wouldnt have some gnarly driveline angles
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on August 31, 2020, 10:13:56 PM
Copied that information on your K member for future. Have 3 binders just on this car. One is a picture history of all the builds. I think I'm on phase 4. One with all the parts/information for the builds. And one with all the information collected from websites/forums. If it wasn't for forums like this one and Eric's Cool Cats I would not have gotten this far without all the excellent help from you guys. The help is very much appreciated.

As far as building one of these cars- it is a challenge. PATIENCE. Parts are rare and expensive. I have enjoyed building my car for the most part. There have been times I was looking at my fire axe. My standards are high, period. The only used parts are trim parts from Ron Hartman and even those have to be exceptional. Depending on what you want your car to do, the research is everything. You young guys have always had computers, us old guys had to look everything up at the library. If you found a good book you told the library you lost it and paid for it. Youtube is a godsend.

What did you use for steering with that K member? I changed the shaft on mine to a Borgeson, with a "D" shaped shaft to get rid of the rag joint. Plenty of clearance with the BBK equal length shortie headers. A little pricey but it works. Did that front end come with coil overs? What "A" arms did you use? I'll probably start buying parts to make the change.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on August 31, 2020, 10:41:14 PM
I started off with a chiltons book until I found this forum in 04. I'm young but old enough to know the way of the service manual too lol.

I agree parts for these are rare and expensive. And I'm a certainly a glutton for punishment. When the bird gets closer to the finish line I would like to snatch up a later year Mark VII and build it. A little more modern, and not as wild. Coyote, 6r80 keep all the amenities AC cruise air ride ECT just make a very nice cruiser out of it. But knowing my automotive A.D.D. it won't be that simple.

My k member came as a kit with coilovers, a arms and all that. I had to swap the arms out because I ordered the wrong ones. They have forward offset, zero offset and reverse offset configurations. The k member itself changes the geometry of the front suspension right off the bat by moving the wheels forward 3/4 of an inch if I remember correctly Maximum Motorsports has the info on their site. I ordered the forward offset control arms initially. That was a dummy mistake. And also 10 years ago to boot. I didn't know that they would move the wheels 1 1/2" forward in the well at that time. Fast forward to this car that I have now, I put them on it and thought "that doesn't look right". Some digging on the internet and found out I'm an idiot. So ordered the reverse offset control arms from MM and it put the wheels back in the factory location. Lesson learned.

If you want the wheel in the factory position get reverse offset control arms if you go the Maximum motorsports route.

I have the Maximum Motorsports steering shaft for a foxbody mustang.

Short of a torque arm and rear control arms my car is pretty much a complete MM suspension car. And those 2 things are on the list eventually to make it a full MM car.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on September 01, 2020, 10:33:43 PM
One of my "finds" was a 1969 Plymouth Satellite Service Manual for my 69 Roadrunner. A life saver.

The TC I have has more than enough electric gadgets to keep my troubleshooting skills sharp. Used up all of it while rebuilding this car. The wiring had been butchered and the PO was actually a Ford mechanic. My car is actually pretty tame on the street. A little loud for any long trip, but it was never meant to be a daily driver. Grundy makes sure you limit your driving to car shows or the repair shop. I had to sign a waver stating it would not be used as a grocery getter or date night otherwise my insurance would be void. I would like to drive it more but with the idiots we have here in Las Vegas and the scarcity of parts causes you to think twice before taking it out. Definitely no racing. To get the collector car insurance I had to have a formal appraisal done after the re-build. My USAA insurance told me I would only get Blue Book if it was damaged and they would total it if the damage was over $1000. Incentive?

I will use your advice on the control arms. Never knew there were 3 different ones. Moving the wheel forward would look weird. Talking with Holley in the AM to make sure I have all the parts. I have ordered the adapters for the fuel and oil pressure. Should be here Thursday. Looks like shipping from Holley will be the 18th.

The Lincoln LSC is another car you never see at these car shows. That was my donor car way back in 03 with the 5.0 conversion, 5 lug, and 373 rear. A Coyote swap would be expensive. Might be cheaper to buy a wrecked GT-500 and use their blower motor. You would end up with a killer car and it would be one of those cars that no one knows what it is or what it took to build it. I think if, big if, I ever change this car I would use the GT-500 motor and trans. A friend has one in his 93 GT.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on September 02, 2020, 07:55:38 PM
Awesome! Can't wait to see how it turns out with the terminator x setup.

I always hated that about "classic car" insurance. Sure we'll insure your car but you can only put 3 miles on it a month and its going to be $1000 for 6 months. State farms got my turd covered.

The lsc idea is a ways down the road and it would be just a nice cruiser. Not a race car like the freedom chicken. But the coyote would put down good numbers stock, be reliable and get great mileage it would be more for my lady than it would be for me.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on September 02, 2020, 11:53:30 PM
Spent 45 min. on the phone with Holley today. Got answers to all my questions. Went ahead and ordered the 550-937F for the Mustang. Seemed like the best fit. It cost $1149 on sale? and because it's on back order will ship on the 16th.

Couple of issues- it's meant to be mounted under the passenger seat, can't do it if you have power seats like my car, no room. You need to be able to see the LEDs for trouble shooting which leaves out the passenger kick panel. I'll figure that out when I see it. Another issue is replacing the MAF. I have the BBK cold Air Intake- through the fender and my 75mm MAF is a Pro M. A little too expensive to use as a coupling. BBK makes a adapter in case your car is SD. Part# 1558, $86 on Amazon. They are proud of their shit. It looks like its polished so I'll have to media blast it and paint it with SEM satin black. I have a phobia about shinny stuff. Next is their fuel pressure sensor. It is meant to replace your schraeder valve. I have BBK fuel rails and my fuel lines are AN-6. I drilled and tapped the right one for a fuel pressure gauge and the left for the valve. Found out Russell has a AN-6 fitting with a tapped hole that is for a fuel pressure sensor. Part # 670343, $12 Amazon.  This will go between my fuel rail and fuel line, You can clock the sensor with this fitting. Next is their oil pressure sensor. They have their own and didn't know if my Auto Meter sensor would work. I found a adapter that screws into the block, has 2 sensor holes. Amazon- $17. Hope this works.

1/8 NPT Oil Pressure Sensor Tee Adapter Turbo Supply Feed Line Gauge 1/8" NPT Female to 1/8 NPT Male with 1/8 NPT Side Port Hose T Stainless Steel

I'll have to play with fitting this in. Auto Meter uses that large pressure sensor. Next to the oil filter. That's it for now on the Terminator X.

Collector car insurance is its own beast. Checked with several but they wanted all the vehicles and house and would give me Blue Book. Grundy OK'd the appraisal, I think I get 5K on millage, No problem, I put 2500 on it in 2 yrs. Cost is $325 for 12 months. Car is registered as a "classic". The motor is not smog legal so you almost have to go this route here in Nevada.

My car would suck as a cruiser. Way too noisy even with the DynaMat and DynaPad interior, gets 13mpg. In 5th it runs 2200 rpms at 70 mph. My wife doesn't drive it.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on October 04, 2020, 06:28:59 PM
Any updates Tom?
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on October 04, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Hey Clayton,      I have the Terminator X, just opened the box and spread the parts out on a bench. Couple of issues- They do not supply the fuel and oil pressure sensors. They say they are optional but will throw an error code if not installed. If you buy the Holley sensors they are $138 each. Found some I think will work for $65 each, same pressure and voltage range. Also shows the computer mounted under the passenger seat but no room if you have power seats. The computer has LED's on the front used for troubleshooting so you will need to see them so can't put it in the foot well. I am going to see if it will fit in one of the slots on the vertical part of the console. I'll try and mount the handheld where the clock is. Looks like cable routing will be a challenge. I can't take it apart yet because I might need to drive it. Last Monday at 4:45pm I was in a accident. My 04 Toyota Tacoma Prerunner was hit in the right rear by a Dodge 1500. I was stopped on the freeway because 3 lanes of traffic stopped in front of me. I was in the right lane, that is the last thing I remember. Next they were putting me in a CAT scan, passed out again. Woke up in the ER with a NHP officer standing next to me. He told me I was hit in the rear by a Dodge 1500 going 65mph, it shoved me to the left where I hit 2 more cars. All I wanted to do is take my wife out for her birthday dinner. My wife had a cut on the back of her head, concussion and a few bruises and I had a chunk of flesh out of my left forearm, right shoulder and a headache. A testament for Toyota engineering. Don't know how to post pictures off my computer. Toyota is toast and the truck was in perfect condition, bought new. It was what the wife drove. She does not know how to drive the F350 and is afraid of the TBird so I'm the designated driver for the time being.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Clayton on October 04, 2020, 11:10:35 PM
Oh that suck! I hope for a quick recovery bud!
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on October 05, 2020, 12:00:09 AM
We're doing OK for a couple of old people. I'm going to test fit what I can. I'd like to make it look like it came that way from the factory. There are only a few people here that even know what these cars are. I'll be able to start if my wife decides what car she wants.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Mikey97D on October 05, 2020, 01:17:58 PM
Tom, I hope you and your wife have a quick recovery and no long lasting injuries.  That is horrible but happy it wasn't worse.

Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on October 05, 2020, 02:03:39 PM
Thanks Mikey. So far we seem to be doing OK. Just a few sore spots. Pretty lucky overall. Once I find a car my wife likes I'll start on my Terminator X install.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Beau on October 05, 2020, 04:37:38 PM
Jesus...glad to hear you're otherwise ok...hard hits like that ain't no joke. :bowdown:
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on October 05, 2020, 07:32:18 PM
Thanks Beau. I have no memory of the hit but the NHP officer said the truck got hit and became an unguided missile.  Give Toyota engineering a high five.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: mcb82gt on October 06, 2020, 08:45:33 AM
Holy Cow!  That is a nasty wreck.  So glad you both are ok.

I dread stopping in lane to make a left turn, let alone stopping on freeway.  People have no attention at all.

Did they say what the Ram drivers excuse was?
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on October 06, 2020, 09:41:29 AM
The NHP officer didn't tell me what the driver of the Dodge was doing before he hit me. My guess- playing with his phone. We have a lot of that here in Las Vegas. I should be able to get the accident report in a few days. In a way I'm glad the wife and I were knocked out and remember nothing. One of the reasons I very seldom go for a joy ride in the TBird.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Beau on October 06, 2020, 11:00:32 PM
I'm sure you've already had the sentiment, but glad you guys weren't in the 'Bird. Very doubtful you'd have gotten out of it without much more injury, if at all. :-O
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on October 07, 2020, 12:38:45 AM
Thanks Beau. I almost drove the TBird but hate leaving her in a parking lot. We would not of survived that crash in the TBird. I hate to think what that would of been like. A lengthy hospital stay at the best and a car destroyed I couldn't replace. One of the reasons she spends so much time in the garage. Hopefully my wife will decide on a car and I can get started on the Terminator X install.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on December 01, 2020, 05:04:30 PM
Update on my Terminator X Project. It's still in the box. Between unscrambling my brain from the accident and trying to find a car for the wife I had to delay my project. I do have the additional sensors for fuel and oil pressure that Holley doesn't supply. Holley has the pressure sensors- $130ea. Found them on ebay for $65ea. The sensors are not necessary but gives you the ability to monitor both with the hand held unit. I have a fuel pressure gauge mounted on my fuel rail but might be nice to see it inside the car. Also have the adapter to replace my Pro M MAF seeing as the car will become SD with this swap. BBK makes it only in chrome for $80. Sand blasted the chrome off and re-painted it with SEM satin black to match my existing cold air intake.

Found a car for my wife. It's a 2019 Genesis G80, 5.0 Ultimate. It's a "luxury" car that is way beyond my mechanical skills. It has a 420hp 5.0, 8 speed automatic. This car weighs 4700lbs. It's a tank. The dealers here were not interested in finding one here in Las Vegas, wanted me to buy what they had. Found this one in Poway, CA and had it shipped. It was a dealer corporate car with 2300mi on it. Full 100,000mi/10yr warranty on it. She's happy with it. Now I can start on my car.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Mikey97D on February 17, 2021, 09:25:13 AM
Any updates on your project, Tom?
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on February 17, 2021, 10:44:14 AM
Hey Mikey,
Started taking the car apart. Got most of the wiring out, just tracing out the extra stuff going over the the starter solenoid. I'm real anal about the wiring routing so using a factory harness has it's disadvantages. Wish they made one that you could make up your own plugs and just left the wire longer. Seems like all of the plugs are ending up by the heater hoses and evaporator. You know how crowded that is.
I think I will be able to install the computer in the bottom slot on the console at the shifter. This is so you can see the troubleshooting lights on it. That will depend on the length of the main sensor cable. I'll just have to make a support for it and a plate to block the bottom of the opening. There really isn't an easy way to do this on these cars. The videos make it look simple. I would like to install the monitor where the clock is so I could leave it hooked up.
There are a few things you need that do not come with the kit. One is the CAN "Y" connector so you can leave the monitor connected and plug in the USB cable. The other is the CAN to USB cable so you can plug in a laptop. You can't use the laptop with out them. Holley has them- $96. The oil pressure sensor and fuel pressure sensors are "optional" but will show on the monitor as "error". Holley has these also- $135ea. I found the same thing on ebay for $65ea. Figure on spending around $1400 for a complete set up.
I  would include some pictures but haven't figured out how with this new set up. Used to be pretty easy.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Mikey97D on February 19, 2021, 11:00:54 AM
Progress is progress.

Looking forward to seeing the interior pics once you are done setting it up.  I thought I saw you posted something up on FB but it disappeared before I could click on the pictures.  Pretty sure it was your car.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on February 19, 2021, 12:32:54 PM
Progress is progress.

Looking forward to seeing the interior pics once you are done setting it up.  I thought I saw you posted something up on FB but it disappeared before I could click on the pictures.  Pretty sure it was your car.

I did post pictures and  a summary of what I was doing but I got a message from the administrator about my comment on practicing brain surgery. I think I said something about practicing on pelosi and schumer first. That was all. Apparently someone was offended so I just deleted the post.
It's coming along slowly. Trying to make sure all the wiring issues are taken care of before I put it back together. I would hate to have to take it apart and troubleshoot. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to reconnect the A/C relay and reroute the fuel pump wiring. I should get the main harness installed today which will dictate how I mount the computer. I have had to take apart the new harness to install loom over exposed wiring at the fuel injectors and make labels to ID the parts.
Any idea on how to post pictures from my computer? When I click on the symbol a box pops up asking for a "url".
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Mikey97D on February 19, 2021, 01:21:47 PM
Progress is progress.

Looking forward to seeing the interior pics once you are done setting it up.  I thought I saw you posted something up on FB but it disappeared before I could click on the pictures.  Pretty sure it was your car.

I did post pictures and  a summary of what I was doing but I got a message from the administrator about my comment on practicing brain surgery. I think I said something about practicing on pelosi and schumer first. That was all. Apparently someone was offended so I just deleted the post.
It's coming along slowly. Trying to make sure all the wiring issues are taken care of before I put it back together. I would hate to have to take it apart and troubleshoot. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to reconnect the A/C relay and reroute the fuel pump wiring. I should get the main harness installed today which will dictate how I mount the computer. I have had to take apart the new harness to install loom over exposed wiring at the fuel injectors and make labels to ID the parts.
Any idea on how to post pictures from my computer? When I click on the symbol a box pops up asking for a "url".
I think to post pictures you have to host them somewhere else for this forum.  I have been using Imgur but I was hoping the powers that be would use Tapatalk so we could post pictures directly from there.  Here's the Imgur:  https://imgur.com/
There might be better options out there but I don't know.

Bummer about the post.  I kept clicking on the picture and got "something went wrong"  LOL
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on February 19, 2021, 08:03:23 PM
I'm on fakebook under "Tom Mikulski". I just checked and my post is still there, you just have to scroll down a half mile and get past all the crap I've posted. Hope you have a sense of humor. I'll modify it and re-post it on the TBird page so I don't upset someone else.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: JeremyB on February 20, 2021, 10:45:45 AM
Why did you choose the Terminator X over something like a PiMPxs (https://www.stinger-performance.com/store/pimpxs-engine-management)

Just curious.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on February 21, 2021, 04:41:02 PM
I guess it was because I have a 34 year old wiring harness on my engine and a A9l computer no one wants to touch. The Holley kit came with all the wiring I'll need and a new computer that is self learning and can be plugged into a laptop for fine tuning. It looked like the best deal for what I had. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. Just did a bunch of reading on specs and forums.
I could of just ordered a new injector harness and computer harness from Ron Francis but would not solved the tuning issue. Spend $700 on wiring or $1100 for wiring and computer. I have replaced everything else on the car and this would be the last thing to replace. I hope.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: JeremyB on February 22, 2021, 04:58:25 PM
Yeah, I can see about replacing the harness!

I haven't looked into replacement harnesses much, but on paper an all-in setup for the PiMPxs is $1400. Pure plug-n-play (https://www.stinger-performance.com/store/pimp-harness-sequential-8?tag=PM-76) except wiring in a WB 02 (the leads are there though). Has self-learning like the Holley.

Wasn't sure if you'd looked into it and found some drawbacks down that avenue. I'd like to go standalone eventually and get a new harness too. I don't have an issue tuning an EEC-IV, but they're getting harder and harder to source.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 22, 2021, 08:21:43 PM
Which computer harness from Ron Francis were you looking at?  As far as I know he only has the ECU harnesses for turbo coupes not V8 cars.  There is an ECU harness specific to the Pimp for V8 cars but I am pretty sure it is stand alone i.e. does not plug back into the dash harness.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on February 22, 2021, 08:39:54 PM
Which computer harness from Ron Francis were you looking at?  As far as I know he only has the ECU harnesses for turbo coupes not V8 cars.  There is an ECU harness specific to the Pimp for V8 cars but I am pretty sure it is stand alone i.e. does not plug back into the dash harness.

They have the fuel injector harness as a stock item. Looked at it back in 2018. I think it was $160. The main harness would be an order item. Just helped a friend install it in a 57, 5.0 TBird. Ordered it with 20ft wire so the computer would go behind the seat. Came with all the plugs at the engine and the computer side wild. Ran the cable from the computer to a terminal block. All the wiring came marked on each wire the full length. It might of been a special order. But they will build any combination you want.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on February 22, 2021, 08:54:35 PM
The two systems I looked at were the Holley and Megasquirt. The reason I picked the Holley was it came with the wiring harness and seemed to have pretty good tech support. I talked with the Holley rep a few times before I bought it. I did not know about the Pimp set up. I'm an old guy and not really a computer whiz so I'll have to leave the tuning to an expert. Holley told me it would come with enough information to get the car started and then it's self learning. With the extra sensors, fuel and oil, plus the two cables you might need to plug in a laptop it came close to $1400.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: JeremyB on February 23, 2021, 08:31:21 AM
Which computer harness from Ron Francis were you looking at?  As far as I know he only has the ECU harnesses for turbo coupes not V8 cars.  There is an ECU harness specific to the Pimp for V8 cars but I am pretty sure it is stand alone i.e. does not plug back into the dash harness.
https://www.stinger-performance.com/store/pimp-harness-sequential-8
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 24, 2021, 01:14:56 PM
I am aware of the stand alone harness like the stinger, holley, and painless but that does not solve the problem for those that want to keep the OEM ECU and harness.  Last time I checked on Ron Francis' website (couple weeks ago) the OEM style injector harness is right at $315 now for a V8 car.  I called them and from what I understand they are not going to build any OEM style harnesses for Mustangs as they cannot locate a couple of the connectors.  Sucks as the stock ECU harness are getting more brittle by the day.  Issues with the OEM harnesses on the Mustangs is they connect to the dash harness but I do not know if that is an issue with the Birds and Cats although I would assume it would be.

I am only going down this rabbit hole as my '93 Coupe needs the ECU harness, injector harness, O2 harness and AC compressor harness.  All of them I bought used when I converted the car from a 4 cylinder and they are not in the best shape.

https://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/index.php?topic=41403.new#new

Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: tommym on February 24, 2021, 04:08:01 PM
When I did this last rebuild and went to re-install the wiring harness I said several prayers. I tried to remove the tape on the injector harness to check the wiring it came off in chips. Snap, crackle, pop. I gave up. Everything worked except the green/yellow from distributor to coil. I did make a new harness, using the existing plugs for the A/C clutch, manifold air temp, oil pressure.

If you're good with soldering you can make your own harness using MTW, (Machine Tool Wire) wire. Easy to solder and flexible. There are connectors available so you can replace the "salt and pepper shakers" wit an actual connector.

This is a pretty good, affordable crimper for any type of terminal you might encounter.

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045CUMLQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I do have a PDF Catalogs of Ford electrical connectors. It shows the Ford connectors with the part numbers. You can find them if you Google "Ford Wiring Pigtail Kits". Most are PDF's. Unfortunately I don't think you will find any for our cars.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: JeremyB on March 05, 2021, 06:01:07 PM
Forum won't let me quote Aerocoupe. Odd...

I think the OEM ECU is still the tits. From a basic ECU standpoint it still kicks the piss out of any aftermarket system.
However, the physical ECUs are getting old and in shorter supply. Ford isn't making all of the connectors to be able to make a OEM-type new harness from scratch. You could still use COTS (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/COTS) connectors and make a new harness, but that's quite a pain. I'm leaning towards going full aftermarket. I just don't want to deal with 32+ year old electronics when there are other options.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 06, 2021, 10:13:43 AM
Forum won't let me quote Aerocoupe. Odd...

I think the OEM ECU is still the tits. From a basic ECU standpoint it still kicks the piss out of any aftermarket system.
However, the physical ECUs are getting old and in shorter supply. Ford isn't making all of the connectors to be able to make a OEM-type new harness from scratch. You could still use COTS (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/COTS) connectors and make a new harness, but that's quite a pain. I'm leaning towards going full aftermarket. I just don't want to deal with 32+ year old electronics when there are other options.

I'm in agreement about the EEC-IV. The only aftermarket system I think is close is from Pro-M. It uses a new Ford processor, is OBD-II compliant, and includes a new harness. The two things that keep me from switching are cost ($2K) and I'm pretty sure it's not plug and play for our cars like on a Fox Mustang.
Title: Re: Holley Terminator X
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 11, 2021, 02:45:38 PM
Well I lucked out and got an NOS M-12071-C302 ECU harness along with the NOS injection harness, NOS O2 harness (manual and auto both) and the AC harness for $600.  Some minor wiring and it will be a drop in.  Anyhow, back to what the thread is supposed to be talking about and sorry for the hi-jack.