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Topic: 87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13 (Read 2827 times) previous topic - next topic

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Hello Fox Bodies
I have been researching this issue both on this site and otherwise simple it may be I am still battling it.
So in recent past I was able to extend and retract the projectile by putting a hot jumper from battery to the yellow/black wire and the white/blue wire one extends the other retracts.
This morning I am unable to do even that, I have switched relays around under the dash and still nothing. However my temp gage is now reading straight up the middle as opposed to being on the hot side.
I am going to find some new relays and I have a new IAC coming.
Any advice to Rid of Code 13 and get this IAC functioning would be greatly appreciated.

                Doug

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #1 –
It is difficult for me to follow along with the progress or no progress you are having with your various problems. The reason is you have so many threads.
This makes it time consuming for me to try to tie everything together.

You posted in an old thread by bootleggersdeluxe this morning. Did you read the whole thread?  I posted info and diagrams on the ISC in that thread.

Don't know for sure but I suspect the ISC motor has a built-in circuit breaker. It may start working again after it cools off.

You may recall from bootleggers thread that the EEC power relay has a 5-10 second delayed drop out. So you don't want to swap this relay with a "regular" relay.

Some fault codes have a different meaning depending on whether it is an O (on demand) code, M (memory) code or R (engine running) code.
 13 is one of those codes. But in any case it can be an ISC motor related problem.

Did you check the ITS (idle tracking switch) function of the ISC with your OHM meter?

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #2 –
I am sorry about the confusion
I have not ohm'd the tracking switch I have to figure out how.
There is a time delay relay for this IAC somewhere I believe under the dash.
There are 2 relays on a pedestal right side of steering wheel under the dash I would like to know what those are.
The car is running well except cold start that's what I am ultimately trying to fix.
I need to know what powers the yellow/black wire and the white/ blue wire that power the ISC
Thanks for your help Softtouch.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #3 –
Your car doesn't have an IAC (idle air control)
The power to ISC motor comes from the EEC. The EEC power relay is a time delay relay.
When you turn the ignition switch off, the EEC stays powered on for an extra 5-10 seconds so it can move the ISC plunger to a fast idle position for the next start-up.
The ITS (idle tracking switch) is inside the ISC and is operated by pushing on the end of the ISC plunger. When the throttle linkage pad is pushing against the ISC plunger it operates the ITS to signal the EEC to take control of the engine RPM.

The time delay relay has a different suffix (A1A) than the standard relays.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #4 –
ISC adjustment:

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #5 –
Quote from: walkingbird;466174
There are 2 relays on a pedestal right side of steering wheel under the dash I would like to know what those are.
Maybe the "cluster illumination relay" and the "flash to pass relay" Always make sure part numbers match before swapping. The flash to pass relay shows in the EVTM that it has a built-in arc suppression diode. So it may not be the same as the relay above it.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #6 –
Softtouch,
  I appreciate the information you have shared a BUNCH.
With my ISC issue the plunger does not move unless I bench test it putting 12 volts to it I can get it to extend and retract but it does nothing on the car. I am beginning to think I need to replace the EEC the only real issue is the car don't like cold starts.
Thanks for the help.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #7 –
I have two ISC's  just ohm'd them both one showed half an ohm (0.5) the other had all 0's (0.00) I am waiting for the new ISC to show up I will compare OHM values then.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #8 –
Softtouch; and the rest,
  Tonight I installed a salvage yard ISC nothing changed.
I preformed the self test using the test light method could not get the ISC plunger to retract in test mode.
  Now the odd part, the selonoids under the washer fluid reservoir made clicks. I noticed the vaspooge operated plunger for air fuel mixture (Softtouch and I have discussed this) had been pulled up by it's own vacuum.
So my belief is that using the test light hooked to the battery did something
I thought I bought a nice car when I bought this one but starting to rethink as it has Gremlins that never sleep.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #9 –
Quote from: walkingbird;466206
Softtouch; and the rest,
  Tonight I installed a salvage yard ISC nothing changed.
I preformed the self test using the test light method could not get the ISC plunger to retract in test mode.
  Now the odd part, the selonoids under the washer fluid reservoir made clicks. I noticed the vaspooge operated plunger for air fuel mixture (Softtouch and I have discussed this) had been pulled up by it's own vacuum.
So my belief is that using the test light hooked to the battery did something
I thought I bought a nice car when I bought this one but starting to rethink as it has Gremlins that never sleep.
The self test does test the solenoids and sensors. So them clicking is ok.
Run the car with the air cleaner off so you can watch the ISC. Warm it up and operate the throttle under the hood. Rev it up and then let go of the throttle.
Does the ISC ever move?
When it's idling, is the ISC plunger touching the throttle linkage pad?"
How did you determine which wires went to the motor for your bench testing?

Have you posted all the codes you get for KOEO (Key On Engine Off) self test?
The first codes out are the "O" (On Demand Codes) then a single separator pulse followed by the "M" (Memory) codes. Include the 11's if any.

After the KOEO codes complete, turn the key off for 15 seconds then start the car and record the KOER codes. First you will get 3 pulses indicating the EEC is for a 6 cylinder engine. Watch the ISC while the test is running.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #10 –
Ok Softtouch,
I just read codes again and have several, I used the test light method.
KOEO
13, 14, 31,
KOER
12, 13, 16
 As for where I have got my information for bench testing the ISC I have been reading myself cross eyed trying to troubleshoot this car. There is a lot of information out there in cyber world not sure exactly where I found any of it.
I am still confused how doing the self test with a test light 
Made the selonoids function? I have ran many self tests and this has not happened and to have vaspooge back at the heating rod in the intake is bizarre.
I have a bright and shinny new ISC and a new EEC, ECM, PCM on its way.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #11 –
Just so you know Softtouch I really appreciate your time, knowledge and patience with me.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #12 –
in the EVTM's ,, make sure your on the "right page" at the top and you see that the diagram is for the "3.8L".

most all the prints will show that they are for the 3.8L and 5.0, because they are the same believe it or not.

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #13 –
Ohm values for ISC
Old 3.1 ohms tracking switch
New 9.5 ohms tracking switch

New ISC motor 20.56 Mega ohms
Old  ISC  motor 6.4      Mega ohms

There is quite a difference

87 Thunderbird 3.8 code 13

Reply #14 –
that was pretty cool...

i was able to secure my meter leads to the tracking switch terminals....

then...........i got some sort of resistance that isnt anywhere near yours,, (i was like 35k)

but.......

i then pushed on the plunger a tad and the meter went to "OPEN".

let go of the plunger and it goes back to a resistance reading.

i think its like i mentioned earlier,,, there might be crud up inside your motor and that tracking switch itself is dirty,, the eec might need to see a particular resistance in order to trigger voltage delivery out to the motor winding leads.