My thoughts on Alternative Energy July 15, 2008, 11:19:40 AM A short treatiseCorn-based ethanol is retardedElectric cars are stupidPersonal carbon credits, also stupidThe "hydrogen economy" won't solve all our illsNuclear power is the way to go Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #1 – July 15, 2008, 12:50:07 PM I'm not sure if I would want to drive around with 4 wheels strapped around a nuclear bomb.... LOL. I'll stick with gas, and sacrafice in other areas. I hear, ya though. All other methods at this point are a joke. We have 100 years of oil reserves. Build a refinery and tap the SOB. Tap Alaska too. The US needs to start worrying about its people and not foreign countries or animals. (I am a patriot as well as an animal lover, and am very environmental) WE, The People......are suffering. I would hope that would count for something. Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #2 – July 15, 2008, 03:36:08 PM My thoughts on alternative energy:There is no one solution.That's it. Pretty simple, eh? Now let's make it more complicated.Like I said, there is no single solution to the world's energy problems. Oil is gonna be the main source of energy (not to mention the chief ingredient in about 90% of what we buy) for a LOOOOOOOONG time. It'll never be 100% replaced.It can be supplemented, though. The easiest, cheapest, and most likely way to supplement oil as an energy source is to do it "on the grid". There are many ways of generating electricity. Each has its down side, of course. Each one of these has the potential to help, but will never succeed on its own. That's why we need a balanced approach, using each technology where it's best suited.Wind. A wind farm might work great in a coastal area where it's always windy, but not so much in areas not known for reliably strong winds. They also act as "Bird Blenders", but I feel that the amount of birds blended up by windmills would be far offset by the amount not poisoned to death by oil spills, acid rain, smog, etc.Solar. Great for areas where the sun always shines and there is plenty of open space for vast solar fields. For the other 99.99% of the earth's surface, notsomuch. Plus, efficient solar cells are expensive.Hydro. There are a few different types of hydro:[LIST=1]Conventional - where a river is dammed up, a reservoir is made, and the energy of the water rushing down a hill is harnessed to spin turbines and generate electricity. The problem with this method is that hundreds of acres of wildlife habitat is destroyed, not to mention a perfectly good river. Don't wanna inconvenience those salmon on their way to do their businessTidal - where the energy of the rising and falling tide is harnessed, either by placing windmill-like turbines in the strong currents, or by diverting some of the tidal water through a turbine similar to conventional hydro, or by directly harnessing the up & down motion of the waves. The cons of this approach include bruised or inconvenienced whales, restricting access to commercial fishing grounds, etc.Nuclear. Likely the cleanest, cheapest, most widely available and most reliable of alternative energy sources, it suffers badly from NIMBY syndrome. You can talk about how safe nuclear energy has been for the past 50 years 'til you're blue in the face, NIMBY people will reject your arguments. They'll only remember Three Mile Island and Chernobyl. Actually, it goes beyond NIMBY to CAVE - Citizens Against Virtually Everything. The same people whining about nuke plants whine about "Bird blenders", wildlife habitat destruction, etc. They want us to live in caves in the dark, which is why the acronym works so well. Perhaps if the USA got a president that could pr0nounce the word people would feel more confident in its safety?Each one of these has the potential to help, but will never succeed on its own. That's why we need a balanced approach, using each technology where it's best suited. Ignore the cries from Maine, where solar won't work - give them wind instead. Ignore (well, maybe not ignore, but place less emphasis on) the environmentalists who will throw up road blocks to ANY energy source. Tidal generator gonna hurt a whale? Tough for the whale. The smart ones will swim around the generator anyway.Now, the future holds two distinct possibilities: What I would like to see, and what is actually going to happen.What I would like to see:Energy taken from all available sources, spread out over the grid. A huge percentage of electricity that is generated is lost during transmission over the lines - instead of one big coal-fired plant in each city, why not have several smaller generating plants scattered through the land? A windmill or two here, a solar array or two there, and a nuke plant or two for each large city where windmills and solar arrays wouldn't make sense or just plain wouldn't work)...Combine this with a real conservation effort by the public, including more fuel efficient cars (already happening), more energy efficient homes (already happening), more use of local, renewable, non-polluting heat sources (geothermal, solar, etc) and the energy problem would be solved forever.What is going to happen:Alternative energy will start to gain traction. OPEC and other oil producers will panic when they see a real threat to their energy monopoly, and flood the marketplace with oil. The price will drop to the point that alternatives are no longer cheaper, nor even economically feasible. The public will demand an end to public-funded alternative energy projects because they are not needed while oil is so cheap. Politicians will oblige, because it would be a very unpopular politician who would have his constituents pay more for energy just because it's good for them in the long run. The move toward alternative energy will slow to a crawl. People will stop conserving because it's cheap, and there's no need to conserve something that's cheap.Then we'll repeat it all in 20 years. Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #3 – July 15, 2008, 04:02:39 PM Quote from: 85bird;227492WE, The People......are suffering. I would hope that would count for something.OK, let's be honest. You're not suffering. You're driving less. There are billions of people in this world who can tell you what suffering is. That is a head in the sand kind of attitude, since we're only now paying what the rest of the world was paying for fuel before the 'crisis' hit. Sometimes a little bit of perspective is all we need, (not a bigger car).QuoteMy thoughts on alternative energy: * There is no one solution.That's it. Pretty simple, eh? Now let's make it more complicated.Right on, Carmen. I've been trying to tell people this for a while now. The only reason we're in a crisis is because we didn't learn last time that we need more than one mainstream source of energy storage. Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #4 – July 15, 2008, 04:48:05 PM Hey Jeremy, if electric cars are stupid, then what do you think nuclear plants produce? Seems like a logical misfire there - no? Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #5 – July 15, 2008, 05:16:07 PM Quote from: Thunder Chicken;227513Energy taken from all available sources, spread out over the grid. A huge percentage of electricity that is generated is lost during transmission over the lines - instead of one big coal-fired plant in each city, why not have several smaller generating plants scattered through the land? A windmill or two here, a solar array or two there, and a nuke plant or two for each large city where windmills and solar arrays wouldn't make sense or just plain wouldn't work)...About 7.4% of power is lost during transmission. 60% of that through the lines, 40% through transformers. [1]In general, smaller fossil fuel and nuclear plants aren't economically feasible. Especially nuclear plants. Scattering wind and solar could work, but I'm not familiar with large scale application of them. Quote from: Cougar5.0Hey Jeremy, if electric cars are stupid, then what do you think nuclear plants produce? Seems like a logical misfire there - no?When I say electric cars, I mean battery powered electric cars, not fuel cells. Battery powered cars have a poor range and a long charging time. Battery technology is pretty mature, so I don't see those things improving dramatically with time.The nuke power comment is directed at my "hydrogen economy" bullet. We will need much more power generating power capability to get hydrogen. Nuclear power is cheap and relative clean (unless you reside near Yuca Mtn. ) Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #6 – July 15, 2008, 05:23:48 PM It's been known that its possible to make synthetic everything.At what cost and why aren't we doin it more? Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #7 – July 15, 2008, 06:02:49 PM Quote from: JeremyB;227529When I say electric cars, I mean battery powered electric cars, not fuel cells. Battery powered cars have a poor range and a long charging time. Battery technology is pretty mature, so I don't see those things improving dramatically with time.The nuke power comment is directed at my "hydrogen economy" bullet. We will need much more power generating power capability to get hydrogen. Nuclear power is cheap and relative clean (unless you reside near Yuca Mtn. ;) )Hey, did you hear about the new puppiesanese fuel-cell battery that recycles back into water molecules and thus only needs to be replenished with water once in a while (similar to SLA batteries). It can store a lot of energy compared to regular batteries as it does the chemical separation (energy storage) on board. Sounds VERY promising and it solves the issue of having to deal with distributing explosive hydrogen. Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #8 – July 15, 2008, 06:19:34 PM When I was a kid,I maid black powder off the shelf.You older bubs will know what I mean.Salt peter.sulpher,a little sweetness.I do not recomend this though. Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #9 – July 15, 2008, 06:23:44 PM I always wondered what salt peter was - lol (not that I was thinking about making gunpowder :) ) Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #10 – July 15, 2008, 06:23:52 PM Quote from: Cougar5.0Hey, did you hear about the new puppiesanese fuel-cell battery that recycles back into water molecules and thus only needs to be replenished with water once in a while (similar to SLA batteries).Nope. Sounds interesting! Do you have a link? Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #11 – July 15, 2008, 06:29:42 PM No actually - I read about it about a month ago and then kinda stashed in the back of my head as in "if I hear about this one again, it's going to change the world as we know it" I always assume new technology will be impractical once they try to make real units, but I always pay attention to the ideas that seem to make sense. Be nice to have a fuel cell battery whose only maintenance is to add water once is a while (besides the normal plug-in or hybrid charging scheme.) Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #12 – July 15, 2008, 06:39:47 PM How do you charge it?,If its bye cord to the house it could be wastefulSaly peter.Back in the day it was fed to ya,to keep your thingie down!!,Vets would understand. Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #13 – July 15, 2008, 06:48:56 PM Quote from: JeremyB;227529About 7.4% of power is lost during transmission. 60% of that through the lines, 40% through transformers. [1]In general, smaller fossil fuel and nuclear plants aren't economically feasible. Especially nuclear plants. Scattering wind and solar could work, but I'm not familiar with large scale application of them. 7.4% wasted is a LOT of electricity. If we could even cut that loss in half it'd have a huge impact on overall energy use. If we could do it by putting a few windmills or solar substations along a transmission line, even if they were there for the sole purpose of replacing lost energy, it'd be double-huge. If we could do it by the aforementioned methods, plus maybe add another 10% (or even more) capacity to the grid from these non-fattening sources, it'd be triple huge. And if we could eliminate the loss almost entirely by putting the source closer to the destination (instead of thousands of miles, such as with James Bay in Labrador, Canada, sending power to NYC) it'd be... well, it'd be really huge.Like I said: No single solution. Many smaller ones. What works in one area might not work in another, but that's no reason to dismiss the idea entirely. As a Nova Scotian living a few miles from the world's most powerful tides, in a climate that only sees the sun about 25% of the year but is windy almost every moment, I'm naturally going to support tidal power or windmills before I support solar power. Similarly, somebody in Tuscon might not care about tidal, but might be all for wind or sun. People in the midwest and prairie provinces might lean more toward ethanol. Those living on top of natural gas might want to go that way.We've got to shift our thinking. When oil was $20/barrel it was fine and well to take a one-size-fits-all approach. Now that it's almost touched $150 and will very likely continue to climb (at least until the producers feel their monopoly is in danger) we need to work on a more diversified energy source. Even if the price of oil comes back down, because as has been demonstrated in the 70's and 80's, cheap oil is temporary, and the fact that a good deal of it belongs to hostile nations makes it an uncertain and unreliable source. Quote Selected
My thoughts on Alternative Energy Reply #14 – July 15, 2008, 07:00:00 PM Quote from: oldraven;227516OK, let's be honest. You're not suffering. You're driving less. There are billions of people in this world who tell you what suffering is. That is a head in the sand kind of attitude, since we're only now paying what the rest of the world was paying for fuel before the 'crisis' hit. Sometimes a little bit of perspective is all we need, (not a bigger car).Yeah, becasue you know me and my situation..... rrriiiggggghhhhtt. Quote Selected
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