Ok, I need to paint the '85 bumpers and B-pillars.
1) First, are the bumpers and B-pillars the same shade of gray?
2) What brand/part number is the best match to these Ford dark gray shades?
3) I think the '85 is supposed to have a semi-gloss sheen to the bumper gray and B-pillar (thinking of Ric's car) unlike the '87-'88 that's more a flat or satin-like black. Is that correct?
4) Has anyone used SEM for the '83-'86 bumpers and/or B-pillars?
(http://www.sem.ws/toolbox/catalog/product_images/205_a.jpg)
They're very close...I would say you can probably be okay with the same paint on both, although they're technically two different codes (see below).
According to the 1983 PPG paint chip charts, under "BLACK OUT COLOR":
Flat Gray (Cougar and T Bird) - 33717
Dark Gray (Cougar and T Bird) - 33696
Now...the good news is, we have paint codes for them. Bad news is, every time I've ever checked to get them mixed, the computer at the paint store does not show a formula for either color in PPG paint. Not sure about DuPont or other brands.
Yes, except for one thing: Ric waxes his B-pillars. His shine is artificial. ;)
B-pillars are supposed to be flat-to-semigloss on 1983-86 cars. Same goes for the molding. Now to be technically correct, you should spray a flatter paint, and after it's dry for a few months, start waxing it. Eventually you'll build the paint up to the correct shine. It's better to do it that way, than start out with slightly more shine than stock, because it's difficult to knock down that kind of shine.
Yes. It is incredible paint. Unfortunately I have never found a perfect match for 1983-86 grey trim in SEM. However, that's because a) until I got this '84, I really haven't had good used stock trim parts to compare the colors to, and b) SEM paint isn't cheap, so trying out a can @ $10 each isn't very bloody fun. Now I have acquired an NOS B-pillar panel that I can easily compare to the SEM colors. I just have to remember to do that some day. I'm confident that SEM offers something that will work, we just have to find it.
You do have another option: http://www.50resto.com offers a Mustang-spec flat trim grey in an aerosol can. The Mustang grey is ever-so-slightly lighter than what was used on our cars, but it is incredibly close. I think my buddy has a can...I'll have to try it out, but as of right now I can recommend it, as it's already pre-made and ready to ship.
BTW, you can use the bumper paint on the B-pillar trim...no need to buy two different types of paint.
Thanks for the detailed reply Eric. I just realized something. I think I've seen '83-'86 Cougars and Tbirds with belt molding that is looks dark gray and I've also seen them with what looks like black. My '85 actually only has faded gray on the bumpers and b-pillars. The rest that runs the length of the car looks black. Is that black just really, really dark gray that didn't fade because of material type, etc? Was the lighter gray only on the LS while the XR-7 and GS got black or a very very dark gray?
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9797/12dec063rn1.th.jpg) (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12dec063rn1.jpg)(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3425/centercapdec06sz7.th.jpg) (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=centercapdec06sz7.jpg)
All models had the same very dark grey; at least, I've never found any kind of differences between models. The fading on the bumpers and B-pillars was very common. What's on your '85 looks "normal" as these cars wear out. Now there's absolutely no fading anywhere on the '84 (and even the '86 convertible when I first got it), and I know these 2 cars were always garaged, so sun exposure has everything do to with the fading. It's not from salt or wind; it's definitely from the sun. Everything should be the same color for the factory look.
I'll snap some pix of the '84's molding and B-pillars for you tonight or tomorrow and post them up. They are about as gracefully aged as you can get, and still they show no wear or fading. Also, I'll unpackage some NOS molding and the NOS B-pillar, maybe get them all under natural light and have them all pose together.
It's good that you brought this up, Karl, because I've been meaning to find a definitive answer for quite some time now. Just never had the impetus to do so.
Regarding the trim color, way back around 1991 when I re-painted my car, I researched this and at that time my dealer showed two different shades of "charcoal grey" for the '83-'88 cars.
It showed the same color code for the '83-'84 & '87-'88 cars and another for the '85-'86 cars.
This does make sense because when I went to ordered a replacement power antenna bezel, the parts books superceded the original '85 part number with an '87 part number. The only difference between the two was the color. The new '87 is a little bit darker shade than the original was. I used it anyway since it isn't right next to any of the other trim, and I doubt anyone would notice the difference in color unless I point it out to them.
For descriptive purposes, I would call the '83-'84 & '87-'88 color a "Dark Charcoal" and the '85-'86 color a "Smoke Charcoal".
**Edit**
Have you ever typed up a response and then 4 hours later you realize that what you typed had nothing to do with the true subject at hand?
Well, I just realized that Karl's Cougar is a GS so my experience with the paint codes on the Turbo cars may have no bearing on the color of the trim of the Gs cars.
Sorry for the interruption guys. :o
Brent
:cougarsmily:
Brent...thanks for the confusion. ;) It's all good, I figured it was something like that.
OK, I took some photos of the NOS molding and B-pillar. Descriptions over each photo.
Here is a NOS 1987 molding. Note the nearly flat black color.
(http://www.coolcats.net/ximages/87molding01.jpg)
Note the part number on the box. This is as perfect as you'll ever see molding for a 1987-88 non-TC car.
(http://www.coolcats.net/ximages/87molding02.jpg)
OK, the NOS boys all together:
(http://www.coolcats.net/ximages/3moldings01.jpg)
And opened *sniff*:
(http://www.coolcats.net/ximages/3moldings02.jpg)
Here's the meat of the conversation at hand. The NOS molding piece and the NOS B-pillar piece together. The B-pillar panel is for a Turbo Coupe, but no matter...the color is still the same as a regular B-pillar:
(http://www.coolcats.net/ximages/2moldings01.jpg)
Closer together. Both parts had 1984 part numbers.
Oh, and ignore the packing spooge that's all over the parts. ;)
(http://www.coolcats.net/ximages/2moldings02.jpg)
One on top of the other (they make shagy time, nyahhsss!):
(http://www.coolcats.net/ximages/2moldings03.jpg)
My conclusion:
There's an ever-so-slight difference in color between the pieces. Otherwise they are in the same league as far as finish (flat-to-semigloss) and color. These pieces haven't seen sunlight until these photos.
If it's not storming in the next few days, I'll get some close-up outdoor shots of the '84's B-pillars and molding.
dude, you unwrapped NOS parts. Holy . Wow, thanks for digging into this one.
Eric, do you have the paint codes for the mouldings? I work in a Dupont supplied Body Shop, and can look up the codes for you. They should work, Ive looked up colors farther back than 84, and my car was fixed here, and they matched it perfectly.
Look up, it's in this thread. :)
Those are the PPG codes. I don't have DuPont or other brands' codes.
And Karl, it wasn't a problem to open those. The 1983-86 molding I'm saving for the eventual restoration of the '84.
You dont have the factory codes? I need to read the paint tag, and see what the codes are, I dont know if the PPG codes will work, I mean it doesnt hurt to try, so I'll give it a whirl tomorow.
I've never seen a factory code for the molding. It's not on the door tag. I have seen some references to it, in a Thunderbird numbers book, but there's nothing specific listed for our cars. The only time I've ever seen a number listed is in the PPG paint chip book. You have the information that I have...
Doesn't DuPont have a chip system like PPG? They might have some codes listed for trim.
I know on newer vehicles the tag with all of the codes, for Paint, trym packages, trim colors. I'll ask my boss. Yeah they have a chip system, we have a big 3 ring binder of chips to match. As far as trim being among them, I will have to check when I go back from lunch.
I just sprayed some SEM 39163 on my front bumper and it is a very close match to my (probably faded but less faded than my bumpers) fender/quarter molding. The store was out of 39173 but should have some in on Tuesday. I'm going to get some of that and try it too. What can I use to fill in the deteriorated/gouged parts of the bumper?
Get this, the SEM "Medium Smoke" is darker than the "Dark Smoke." Is there some paint/color lingo I'm not hip to?
The "Medium Smoke" is 39163 and the "Dark Smoke" is 39173 but the 39163 is darker. Go figure.
So far, I would say the 39163 is the closest match. Eric, I would like to compare my freshly painted parts to your NOS parts at Cat Jam to see how close the color match is.
Forgot to ask something.
What color is the metal front tag holder and the metal lower windshield trim supposed to be? To me, it seems that the windshield trim should be flat black to follow the same scheme they did with the reverse curved side window molding. They painted a small portion flat black or satin to match the rubber dew wipe along the driver door. Also, seeing that the windows have that black dot matrix thing going on around their perimeter, I figured black was the logical choice for that part of the front windshield.
What about the tag holder though? Without spending all night digging through all my stuff, it seems that all the factory pictures don't show front tags.
The reason I'm sort of picky with this stuff is because the light sage metallic can be unforgiving with wrong colors. I figured it probably looked close to the best it could from the factory so before I change a color from the factory, I have to know what the original should be to help determine if an alternate is better or not as good.
For the lower windshield trim, I would call it semi-gloss black. I can take a picture of my NOS one if you would like.
I can't help you on the front license plate holder. Since MI doesn't require them, I have never paid attention to them or had a reason to get one.
Brent
:cougarsmily:
Sure thing...just remind me if I forget. :hick:
Glad to hear we might have a choice, though. Thanks for doing the legwork on this.
Well, I just redid mine on the '84. It's a flat black of your choice, no grey shades at all.
The cowl cover piece...it's as Brent says. I have my original rusted '84 piece that you can examine, if you wish. Mine got replaced with an '88 panel that seems to have been powdercoated from the factory; it's also a black color with just a hint of a shine. So flat-to-semigloss black is good. I usually recommend a little shine to help prevent acid rain etching (and therefore rust).
Eric,
If you would call around your area and find a paint store with a paint code camera they can snap a pic of those parts and it makes a exact match paint code . A little trouble but well worth the effort.
Mike
Mike, that's a good last resort; the guy that painted my car has access to one of those. I'm trying not to do that unless I need to, though, because he has to pull a lot of strings to get it. Karl and I will definitely have an answer, one way or another, in less than 10 days, comparing the parts we have...guess we'll go from there afterwards. Hopefully we've got a ready-made solution with the SEM paint.
OK,
I didnt think it was an issue like that but maybe so depending on the paint supplier. I have several buddys that paint cars here and just recently I restored 2 Elsinores and had 1 buddy take my old tank to the paint supplier which snapped the paint code on the spot and made the 2 colors needed, I figured since you had the NOS parts you could take them in and get it done that way. Actually I thought about my suggestion after I posted and realized this guy wants to use a spray bomb to paint his parts rather than a gun. My Apologies
Uh, yeah.
This guy wants to go the more expensive, complex route of spraying it himself instead of going through the quick and inexpensive process outlined above.
I guess anything learned from this won't be useful for the rest of the community since they all take their B-pillar trim to their buddies who are professional paint sprayers and have time to do this for $10 or less.
Back from the dead...looking back over the entries I see that we never did post a resolution so here we go...
First I showed mine to Karl and then he showed me his. :tg:
His paint was just a hair lighter than my NOS parts. It was a pretty decent match overall...although I've got a keen eye for that sort of thing and it would personally bother me that the paint would be lighter. But that's just me. I still believe that the solution lies within SEM's stock paint range, just haven't had the time/money to do any more trials. I've also heard from a few people that other companies' bumper paints have dark greys that may be close. This spring I hope to have enough time to do some more in-depth study of this, but for now I believe Karl has a pretty good solution with his efforts.
i know where i work we have paint chips that go way back. so when i need something like this i head to the paint chips. i know you guys are all thinking paint chips aren't those for the exterior paint. yep but they also have them for trim/interior/under hood so you guys might just try to head to a decent paint shop and ask to see there older paint chips.
here are some paint chips to look at.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/ipsd1/84tbirdpaint.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/ipsd1/84tbirdpaint2.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/ipsd1/84tbirdpaint4.jpg)
i know those all say exterior and interior no trim right. if you read this on the back of the 1st page then you will see you look up the trim code in the book and it shows you witch one of them is that color here is that info
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/ipsd1/84tbirdpaint3.jpg)
hope this helps you guys
ps also note that on the 2nd page it give us the paint code to the blacked out trim and window moldings on the bird or cougar.
if you need a formula for the ppg 33717 it is available
in single stage Concept. has to be sprayed from a gun
and a special activtor used.on my 86 capri 5.0 i used it
on all trim, mlgs, and the lower part of the car. it is a
low gloss color.--irv
85-6 mustang GT's use it for their trim too.
My conclusion is that SEM 39163 is about as best as it's going to get from a can. For starters, there is an ever-so-slight difference between those NOS pieces as Eric said. The color of my parts that were painted with SEM 39163 was right in between the two shades of those NOS parts - a hair, and I mean
a hair lighter than one and a hair darker than the other, and I'm pretty buttstuff about this sort of thing. For those that don't want to go through the hassle of mixing paint and buying spray guns and all of that (like me) and unless you are competing against 90-plus point cars, you should be happy with SEM 39163.
I thought that the answer was right there in the the post I made. Maybe the information I listed wasn't very clear. It says right on the page that BLACKOUT Gray Ford # 5889- Dupont code C8436 is used on cougar and thunderbird in fascia body moldings and window areas. If needed I could get more but the trim and window info that I looked at was the same for years I could find paper work for.
my recent / first attempt experiences with bumper paint..............
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?p=276424&posted=1#post276424
after knowing how well the use of this produce held up for nearly two years, i decided to experiement.
This is the paint I used on my bumper-it was an exact match for me. I bought it at the local Advance Auto parts. Dave
Yeah, I tried that exact one as well...still have the can in the basp00get. It wasn't close enough for me so I kept looking for a closer match.
wow! NOS stuff. Sorry been reading the post and its answered my questions. Ive been updating pix and progress on my 86 Tbird repaint project under The Bondobird. My pillars looked flat black on it. The car will be painted like a 90 35th Ann edition Bird and I was trying to figure out what the paint the headlight buckets, grill and aluminum trim. ??