Ok, i have taken the plunge on my old t-bird.
I figured what the hell. it is sitting there with no engine or trans :mad: . I had her a long time ago set it up for a manual trans. I blew my 5.0 250 miles after he installed a super duty T-5. I have a aluminum fly wheel with the neutral setting for the super coupe engine. i found a super coupe engine on crageslist a long time ago for 250.00 with manual trans attached. Because the stock 5-speed is a mazda setup. i sold it for 250.00. BAM f:burnout: ree 3.8SC. $50.00 on ebay for all the wiring harness :D . A case of beer and $50.00 for my electrician friend to help wire her up. $20.00 for a pair of stock 94 mustang 3.8 headers. But... now i have ran into a issue. "im sure first of many"
Engine mounts. :punchballs: MY bird was a 5.0 at one point a long time ago. now i need 3.8 mounts. any one have any 80's 3.8 mounts with brakets?
Also i was looking online at the 94/95 mustang 3.8 mounts. they look like they may work. Any one have any ideas?
I have two, 1983 3.8 motor mounts from my T-bird. If interested,I can post pics or PM me.
Yes, please, can you post pics?
29,000 miles on these mounts
that looks like it will work, i am going to go and take a look at the engine and see if the holes like up. i was told at some point "dont remember when" that they changed the distance between mounting holes on the engine mounts on the engines late in the 80's. I have no idea if there is any validity to it. But i will go and get the measurements tomorrow and post them. Would you mind checking the distance. And if it is the same, how much would you want for them?
Thank again, i really appreciate it. :bowdown:
It seems like a great idea because the 80s T-bird weigh less than the newer ones and the Supercoupe motors have tons or aterkaret parts for them it would be a cool swap and should run good. Was thinking about it last summer may do it one day but looks like you will beat me 2 it.
not a problem.
$40.00 + shipping
You may want to get in contact with someone who's done this before -- the car was an '87.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=9395
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=1868
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/member.php?u=116
The guy doesn't post anymore, but I suppose you could IM him...
Here's some other postd on other sites from Him:
http://forums.tccoa.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=6060
i will be going over to my friends house today to measure the mount. He has a nice barn/shop to do the swap. I will also take some pics of the t-5 on the engine.
some issues i have ran into already. "from 1984 to 1990."
1. engine mounts. Thanks to Chooglin we may have that solved.
2. exhaust. the Super coupe manifolds are big o cast iron bricks. they had to go.
My bbk of road h pipe from my 5.0 will not bolt up. so its gonna need a bit of tweekin. As i stated before, the 94 mustang headers are nice, but the driver side is angled a bit goofy.Pics to come of this.
3. Radiator/intercooler. The stock Super Coupe radiator is way small. So i have elected to retain my stock 5.0 radiator. that otta keep her cool. But that makes it almost imposable to mount the stock intercooler. gonna go with a http://www.frozenboost.com/ intercooler kit. :burnout:
4. Battery is on the passenger side in 84. its on the right in 90.
5. Alternator is a one wire on the 90. The 84 as we all know is not. Not a big deal but, and this relates to #4. the alternator harness is way short to allow for the driver side battery. And it is going to be in my way for the intercooler kit.:mad:
6. The 90's stock harness is MASSIVE "pics to come" the engine bay harness is connected to the engine to computer harness. the engine to computer harness is connected to the engine harness. Its quite a cluster F%#K. :toilet:
7. All the bolts on the engine are metric. I was not aware of that, and had to go to the good old hard ware store and dig for grade 8 metrics for the trans.
The 5.0 bell housing will and does bolt up to the 3.8, The underside of the bell housing bolts to not bolt up to the holes on the oil pan that are there for said purpose.
8. the stock 90. oil pan my be to deep/tall. i will let yall know.
Chooglin - price sounds good. I will let ya know later today what the measurements are, You take PayPal?
P.S so far the total is up to about $2100.00 most of the cost is the flywheel and transmission. if you count them out, i am still in the couple of hundred range.
People ask me why a am going threw all this for this old car. 2 reasons.
1. It was my high school car. I cant get rid of her.
2. Have you ever driven a t-bird?
my wife has a paypal account we can use.
ok, the distance between the two parallel holes are 3 1/4 inc apart.
the single hole to the forward two holes is 5 1/4.
is that the same as what you have?
getting ready to eat but will go get measurements in a hour or so.
ok this is what I have.It is closer to 3 3/16" and 5 3/16" on my mounts.not trying to get technical,but just wanted to make sure you know what I have.we are only talking a 1/16 of an inch.
ya know thats so close i may just be fartin in the wind with my measurements. i whould like to get them from ya, i get payed on Wednesday, my i send you payment then?
I'm fairly certain the block mounting points for the motor mounts didn't change from '83 to '04. I've got a pair of '85 mounts on an '02 block.
You can pick up a new pair of mounts for under $30 + shipping from rockauto.com
JeremyB, i need the brackets more then i need the mounts. i can get the mounts any ware i know, but i don't have the brackets and they are getting a bit difficult to find in your local junk yard.
If you were working on an 86+ I'd have you covered with my Type 8 mounts, but seeing as you have an 84, you need the "Mustang" type.
Wednesday is Fine.I will need a zip code to get shipping cost and give you a total , if you are still interested in them,I will ship them out.
My zip is 98665.
The total will be $50.00.
If you can PM me your e-mail addy,I will send you a request for the money and I will ship it as soon as the money clears my wifes paypal account.
Joe
Ok, just thinking into the future while i wait for the engine mounts to arrive,
i currently have the stock 7.5 3:08 with track lock rear in the bird. With this new setup Super duty t-5 with the 3.8 SC engine, what rear end and gears do y'all think i should use?
i am figuring 8.8 most likely, but i want to try and keep the gears drivable, I would like to maintain some mpg if i can. so i don't really wanna go hi on gears. What do y'all think?:welder:
3.27's with a 7.5 rear. As long as you dont beat the out of it, it will be fine. Also, 3.27's could be had from a hand full of junkyard cars.
Ok, Big thanks to Chooglin, got the engine mounts. Just what i needed.
good to hear you got them ok...................now get out there and do some wrenching.
With a s/c 3.8 motivating things, you really don't need more than those 3.08 gears...especially considering our foxes are lighter than the mn12's...the 7.5 should actually be okay as long as it is a trac-lok unit.
-Don
Ok, sorry for the delay. i had to wait for a few to get more parts.did a compression check. 150 on 1,2,3,5 140 on 4,6 so she is good to go, that was wet and dry test. Replaced the Valve Cover gaskets today. Bolted up the engine mounts, and the headers. :mullet:
Also have the front cover gasket kit. The front main seal is leekin. Going to do that tomorrow before install.
60.00 later for all the gaskets and bolts. i have it all attached now.
I did find one interesting thing about the setup. The engine mounts the Chooglin sent me have a alignment dowel on both mounts. My 84 cross member does not have a hole for the dowel on the driver side. Small difference from 83 to 84 i guess. Small trip to the grinder will take care of that.
(http://www.26thnorthcarolina.org/scswap/IMG_1027.JPG)
(http://www.26thnorthcarolina.org/scswap/IMG_1028.JPG)
(http://www.26thnorthcarolina.org/scswap/IMG_1029.JPG)
(http://www.26thnorthcarolina.org/scswap/IMG_1025.JPG)
(http://www.26thnorthcarolina.org/scswap/IMG_1026.JPG)
P.S The 7.5 LS i have in there is a auburn unit. I am not going to go out and put slicks on or any thing. But i am going to go in and have it rebuilt. the gears are getting kinda noisy. That is why i am wondering if its worth it becouse of the money involved. is it just a better coarse to go and get a 8.8?
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/cars/IMG_1027.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/cars/IMG_1028.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/cars/IMG_1026.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/cars/IMG_1032.jpg)
cool.... Get'r done.... LOL..
With all the hassle I would have just gone 5.0L, but I like seeing people swap in something different...
Quick what flywheel is bolted to that motor??
its a neutral balance aluminum. i don't remember the brand at the moment.
ok, found 2 more issues.
1. the throttle cables are to short. - figured this was coming.
2. the 3.8 sits a little bit more forward then the 5.0. in turn this has created a issue with the transmission mount. the crossmemeber sits a bit to far back and the the mount will not line up with the trans. i am thinking about moding the crossmember, but i was wondering if y'all had any good ideas?
:punchballs:
so i used a grinder to cut off the welds on the crossmember and moved it up so it was properly aligned with the bottom of the trans. :sawzall:
but it also showed me more issues.
1. the drive shaft is a lot shorter then i am comfortable with. it fits but it has a lot less teeth on the rear of the trans. so when she is running, i am going to get a alluminum drive shaft and take her to a drive line shop for fitment.
2. exhaust is also short. going to have to cut off the exhaust mount off the pipe and move it closer to the crossmember exhaust mount. :welder:
Engine bay issues:
1. The super coupe wire harness is way way to long. because it was made for a much bigger car. the ecu harness is so long it stretches from the firewall about 1/2 foot beyond the front of the car.
2. This creates a big nest of wires in the over by were the ac condenser.
:beatyoass:
Wire looms/ cover things will help hide alot of the extras, can you pull some of the extra ECU length back into the car and behind the kick panel and under the dash
the harness is not set up in a way that i can do that. if i do, i whould have to cut the wireing for the baro sensor and or relocate it under the dash,
Just wondering how this swap is going.
its kinda on a short hold for right now,
My XKR's timing chain tensioners went bad.
Its funny how many car company's if the late 90's thought that plastic tensioners were a good idea. 1256.00 later its fixed. And that was in parts alone. i did the work. Just got it running yesterday.
SOOOO as you can imagen that kinda threw a wrench in the swap.. but it should be back under way next month. i am looking at getting back into the swing of things in November when i catch up on bills.
I will keep ya all informed as it happens.
curentley its awaiting the wiring the inter cooler, drive shaft, exhaust, and fuel plumbing, computer, tuner, a tone of sensors... yea, got some work to do.
hey one thing. keep an eye on the balencer. They are pr0ne to breaking or the rubber ring in them break down and allow the outer ring of the balencer to fall off. When this does happen i would go with a bhj balencer. Thats the way im going on my SC.
OK gentleman..
I am re-starting work on the bird "and freezing my NUTS off in the process". I have ordered my frozen boost kit.. from http://www.frozenboost.com/ (http://"http://www.frozenboost.com/")
Found a ECU on ebay for 25.00!! :D
And i am looking at that alluminum driveshaft from
http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c3_aluminum_6061_t6_driveshafts.html (http://"http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/c3_aluminum_6061_t6_driveshafts.html")
i will let ya all know as soon as i get her up and running.
thanks for the update and good luck.
good luck.
Great idea PITA project i wish you luck i have thought about doing that swap a few times over you can do it may take a little longer and a little more help than you 1st thought.
Im back on the project after a long long delay due to the economy and a engine rebuild in my 2000 Jag... (dont ever buy a jag) ... So any way im back at it and have learned several new things
1. The stock wiring is doable but its a pain. the stock wiring harness go's from the firewall and stretches about 3 feet past the front of the car :hick: . I cut a hole in the inner fenderwell on the pass side and ran it threw there..
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/Tbird/th_309995_10150287635504670_500229669_7542670_3011210_n.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/Tbird/?action=view¤t=309995_10150287635504670_500229669_7542670_3011210_n.jpg)
After this was done i had to sift threw the driver side SC harness and remove the wireing for the power feed to the ECU Relay (i mounted the relay in the fender). That was a pain in the ass. But its done. Ended up adding a few power wires going from the stock 84 harness on the drivers side threw the wire bundle in between the radiator and then connecting it with the ECU relay. While i was in there i mounted up my K&N cone filter on the end of the stock tube. There will be no air filter under the hood. a true cold air setup!
2. The stock motor mounts for the 84 will not work if your running a :bowdown: FMS superduty T-5 with a aluminum flywheel and a king cobra clutch. it puts the shifter in the stereo :punchballs: . So i had to move the engine 1 1/2 back buy making custom mount plates. This in tern caused another issue as the intercooler charge return pipe has a bracket that is bolted to the block right next to the mount... well if you move the motor back it puts a bolt hole in the middle of the block's mounting pad for the bracket. so i had to cut that.. (pic below).. freeked my nabor out when he came out side and saw me cutting on the engine with a cutter wheel.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/Tbird/th_2011-12-24135159.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/Tbird/?action=view¤t=2011-12-24135159.jpg)
3. Now the engine is close to the fire wall which makes the stock cooling system routing difficult. The stock cooling system runs from the water pump to the oil filter adapter then up the driver side under the inter cooler pipes to the back of the engine where it takes a left hand turn and go's behind the engine to the pass side heater core inlet. With engine so close to the wall its going to be a bitch to route the pipes.. (additional pics to come)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/Tbird/th_2011-12-18135226.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/Tbird/?action=view¤t=2011-12-18135226.jpg)
4. this setup required two different length O2 sensors. Pass side is stock length and the driver side has to be at least 10 to 15 inch long.
5. The stock throttle cable is way way to short. I am going to order a lokar cable for this which i have not done yet. (pics to come)
6. The Alternator is on the wrong side. So i had to make a supper long alternator + cable and run it threw the wire bundle between the radiator.
the plan is to use a water to air intercooler system similar to whats on frozen boost.com
I am also going to run the screaming demon coil back with 10mm live wires which are on there way. will be ordering a new much larger MAF housing in a few days. I am hoping to be able to fire it up before the end of next month. Then i will be saving up to get the exhaust done and the inter cooler which will be custom built for me by my good friends up at nameless performance. I will keep yall informed with more pics as this progress's
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/Tbird/th_2011-12-24131630.jpg) (http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/elantbird/Tbird/?action=view¤t=2011-12-24131630.jpg)
I ordered a replacement unit. the stock one was shot!
can't wait to see the outcome of this.. curious to see how the motor performs in a better platform :p
Neat project....
I curious about the T5 shifter placement. I remember reading on the sccoa.com about the problem of using T5 in MN12 cars. It would put the shifter in the dash. As they where designed around the Mazda MR52....a truck tranny. Used alot in F150. Could you have used the engine and tranny in the stock position if you had a 83-84 TC/XR7 console? This is a great swap. With all the torque that SC 3.8 will produce in your not so heavy fox tbird. What kind of rear gear are you going to run? I wouldn't want more that 3.27 myself. The SuperCoupe had a rear gear of 2.73 with manual! All though lots of guys swap in 3.27. The first gear ratio is something like 3.5?ish compared to the T5 2.97 1st gear.
Good luck,
Travis
The issue is that the 84 V6 mount plates on my v8 crossmemeber put the engine way to far forward. and i should elaborate.. it puts it 1 1/2 inc forward toward the stereo. if i had no floor console between the seats it would be fine. But as soon as i looked to re-installing the stock console with the proper turbo coupe trim it would not allow it to all bolt up.
I got the engine with the mazda trans still bolted up to it off craigslist for $250.00. I already had the T5 in the car which only had approx 300 miles on it before my 5.0 went tits up :punchballs:. So i separated the Mazda unit and sold it on craigslist for $250.00 :cheers:
I am going to stick with the stock 3.08 rear gear ratio that the 5.0 had. But i am going to rip out the stock 7.5 and put in a 8.8 turbo coupe axle. I am going to have the turbo coupe axel rebuild before instilling with a after-market LS unit and a new set of 3.08 gears.
P.S
The stock 5.0L lower radiator hose is a perfect fit. the stock SC upper radiator hose works to but you have to angle it back a hair to fit... My screaming daemon coil will arrive soon. Looks like i am going to tackle the heater hose issue next week. I will take pictures and post.
I have not decided if i am going to maintain the Throttle body heater hoses yet or just ditch them for simplicity,
It's not the cross member...they're the same, regardless of engine.
The difference is in the shifter placement in regards to location on the transmission, as well as the length of the transmission, in regards to T5 vs. the Mazda SC transmission.
Did you reuse your 5.0 T5 bell? If so, I believe that's your issue...
The 3.8 bell is "deeper"....find one from a Mustang, I bet it'll help put your shifter where you want it..or at least a little closer. Also, the '94+ 3.8 T5 had a longer input shaft as well...
I saw a 95 3.8 Stang with a T5 in it last time I was at pick n pull....thought about it, but I knew it would be the wrong length for a Fox...unless it was behind a 3.8.
The engine block mount points, and outer physical dimensions never changed. Neither did the T5 lengths, or mounting points. The bell housing itself is the only difference. PM CougarSE for the details, he swapped a T5 into an '88 3.8 Fox. he could tell you more, or you read his thread...probably buried in the sands of time, but it IS there if you look. :)
'Luck;)
Thank you sir.. I stand corrected in regards to the crossmember/bell's.. I did re-use my 5.0 bell housing... That explanes the issue. Thank you sir
I have already created custom engine mounts to fix the issue.
I wonder why ford used different bellhousing for the 3.8 to 5.0. The block mounting points are the same....hmmm.
Travis
i've been wondering the same thing myself when i read it above.. doesn't make sense, but what does these days?
That people love fox third/cougars they rock.
Travis
:dunno: i know a couple douches who own(ed) fox birds/cats lol