Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: vinnietbird on February 10, 2019, 08:55:44 AM

Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on February 10, 2019, 08:55:44 AM
OK....the story.....

I have a custom Ed Curtis cam. Made for my car. Since the cam was installed a few years ago, I changed the following....

3.55 to 3.73 gears
Shorty headers to long tubes
GT40 intake to Trick Flow R
70mm tbody to a 75

My thoughts are the cam isn't as optimal as it was because it was made for a certain combo.

I have a new Anderson N41 cam on my work bench, has anyone ever had an experience with them?

Also, do you think a Trick Flow R intake is actually more for racing and I'd be better off with a Track Heat or Street Heat style intake/
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on February 10, 2019, 11:43:22 AM
Get ahold of Ed. Since he ground it, he may have a better sugestion than what you'll get here. Have you thought about 1.7rrs providing you have clearance? Maybe a simple solution. I know they woke up my stock H.O. Cam
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Beau on February 10, 2019, 01:28:44 PM
X2 on the call to Ed.
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: 87 T-BIRD on February 10, 2019, 04:16:50 PM
Vinnie you should definitely contact Ed, I will say that the Anderson cams are good cams (I know someone running the N71 in a 347 stroker that runs 10 0's), but a custom ground cam is the way to go! I know Ed from racing in the NMRA, he is a good guy and will take care of you.
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Vintage on February 10, 2019, 05:39:33 PM
I havent used the N41 myself, so cant comment on it, although the specs seem in line with a mixed-use HCI combo on a 302/306. As stated, get Ed's feedback on whether a cam change is worth it, hard to compare without knowing your driving/perf expectations or the specs on the custom.

  The R is a capable intake but it will certainly be less punchy if you swapped from a ported Cobra or something similar. Its an aggressive intake for a low-rpm 302. If the car is 97% street driven at moderate rpm levels the driver's impression will probably be a negative one. Or they'll be looking to swap to deeper gears.

As a point of reference, fully optioned/nothing removed 5 speed fox Mustang vert, comparable weight to your Bird. 3.73 gears, full length 1 3/4 headers, engine is a little healthier, a 331ci, 10:1 comp, AFR 185's with upgrades, custom cam, fully ported Edel RPM 1 intake with 75 T/b, 36lb inj, stock EEC, shifted at 6K. Switched to an intake similar to the TFS R, the Holley. On dyno, car lost TQ and HP from 3400-5200.  The gains above 5200 were single digits until close to 6K where it might have held a 14-15rwhp advantage. Tuned it on 3 dyno pulls and took it out on weekend. Car felt softer at anything less than 5K rpms but was an animal above it and ran close to same as before against known closely matched competitors.

All of that to say that its important to be brutally honest with what you want out of a combo. Lots of guys, on and off the internet, just chasing a number. An ET, a dyno #, etc.. Changing an intake (or gears, or cam, or heads, etc) may help for that, but the street driven experience may suffer. And it may take other changes to bring the cam or intake swap into its own. Those further mods or changes can have upsides/downsides associated with them, as well. 

In the example above, the owner went back to the modified Edelbrock intake.
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 10, 2019, 10:58:14 PM
I'd ask the cam grinder what he thinks before swapping cams. He may suggest an intake swap. You might need more cam than you'd be comfortable with on the street to get the most out of that Trick Flow R.

I did swap from a GT40 intake to an Edelbrock Performer RPM I intake about 3 years ago. Felt like I lost nothing on the low end but gained a bunch above 5000. Highway pulls are much better than with the GT40. The Performer RPM I is kinda in between a GT40 and Trick Flow R.
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: V8Demon on February 12, 2019, 03:50:53 AM
E-mail Ed.  He doesn't do phones.
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on February 12, 2019, 07:51:24 AM
I messaged him. He has seen it, but no reply yet.
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: JeremyB on February 12, 2019, 11:08:09 AM
Quote from: vinnietbird;468830
I messaged him. He has seen it, but no reply yet.

Par for Ed Curtis from what I've seen over the last 15 years! :p
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 15, 2019, 12:11:36 PM
Vinnie,

I have one of Ed's cams in the 331 that is in my Mustang and any changes to the combo will net an email to him.  Hands down the best combo I have had so far.  If I wasn't so lazy I would get one ordered for the Bird but I just hate to open up that motor...
Title: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 20, 2019, 10:33:06 AM
Did you like the way the car ran with the GT40 intake vs. the R long runner? Is there something about the R you don't like? With a T5 and 3.73 gears I can't imagine that your spending so much time low in the rev range that the car feels sluggish.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Vintage on February 26, 2019, 09:14:43 PM
I can imagine it. A balanced combo is critical with any motor. Even more so with a 302 thats being kept under 6K rpms.  You change something that throws the combo off, it WILL let you know.

OP most likely has an intake problem, not a cam problem. As in, the intake has a good bit more plenum volume and runner cross sectional area than what is optimal given the small displacement and low revs. The per-runner charge velocity and cylinder filling has been effected by the R intake. Changing cams is not going to substantively alter that.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 27, 2019, 11:58:04 AM
What he said.  My little 306 was more aggressive with the TMoss ported Cobra upper and lower than with the Edelbrock Performer RPM II upper and lower.  When I built the 331 the additional cubes took advantage of the Edelbrock intakes.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on February 28, 2019, 07:54:05 AM
I'm going to install the Track Heat intake and shelve the Trick Flow R and see how it works out. Updates as they happen.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Vintage on February 28, 2019, 12:23:38 PM
Sounds good, look forward to your impressions after driving it again.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 28, 2019, 02:10:29 PM
I'm going to install the Track Heat intake and shelve the Trick Flow R and see how it works out. Updates as they happen.

How close is the R lower to the Track Heat lower? You may be able to just swap the uppers. I haven't looked too closely at TF intakes.

If you want a solid better than the GT40 intake but not as crazy as the Trick Flow R/Edelbrock Performer RPM II, Holley Systemax, and you don't already have a Track Heat intake try finding an Edelbrock Performer RPM I intake. It's basically a Performer intake with shorter runners and a slightly larger plenum. I run one and love it. Basically the same amount of low end torque as the GT40 I used to run but the engine now pulls like a freight train at high RPM. There is a noticeable difference above 3000 RPM between the two intakes. Being that the car has 3.73 gears and a 2800 stall converter I never even noticed the claimed "loss of torque at 2000 rpm" everyone on the Corral complains about.

Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Vintage on February 28, 2019, 03:07:18 PM
Trackheat has smaller runners than the R for both the upper and lower, not compatible between the two. 

They both have the rectangular port layout that is somewhat staggered where the upper meets the lower, so they look similar at a glance, but thats where the similarity ends as the port dimensions and intended application is different between them. The R upper also has a 75mm throttle body opening or an optional 90mm.

I like the Edelbrock intakes as well, I've used all of the Performer/RPM versions and the Vic 5.8 EFI, no complaints on any.

My only complaint when using the R was that the bottom of the upper interfered with aftermarket fuel rails unless a space was used. This presents a problem with hood clearance if used on a 351 swapped Bird.  On a fox Mustang, even a 3" cowl hood will rub. We ended up clearancing/welding the bottom of the upper to be able to use the larger fuel rails (supercharged Windsor, so stock fuel rails inadequate) without the spacer between upper and lower.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on March 01, 2019, 07:39:25 AM
I have a Track Heat ready to go. I'm waiting on the new lifters to get here. I'll be reporting the results.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 01, 2019, 05:29:40 PM
You never said but did the R make your car feel sluggish vs. the GT40?
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on March 02, 2019, 07:40:25 AM
The R makes it feel a bit sluggish down low. once you get way up in the rpms, pull hard, it's made for more of a racing application I believe. The Track Heat rpm range starts 1000 rpms lower. Much better than the R.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 09, 2019, 10:55:29 PM
"Vinnie's changing intakes" After all these years nothing changes! lol
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on March 11, 2019, 07:47:21 AM
LOL. I am.....but this is the last time I'm swapping intakes. Keeping my current cam.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 11, 2019, 04:19:16 PM
Sure Vinnie, Sure it's the last time you'll swap and intake manifold.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on March 11, 2019, 07:57:42 PM
No.....really.......I'm 100% fairly sure of it.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 18, 2019, 11:26:21 PM
Get the swap done yet?
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on March 19, 2019, 07:54:23 AM
Update, sold the N41 and kept the Ed Curtis cam. I swapped the Trick Flow R intake for a Track Heat, that made a huge difference in low end power. I'm happy with that. I do need to pull the upper intake this weekend and adjust the rockers, but that's no big deal.

Now to find someone who needs to buy a Trick Flow R intake.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 19, 2019, 02:29:23 PM
I was gonna say post it up for sale on the Corral and someone will buy it but it looks like you have that covered.  Hopefully you have a sale pending.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on March 20, 2019, 07:54:41 AM
Parts are sold. Now to adjust the rockers and be done for a while.

Well, almost done, I have a solid steering shaft I want to install when the time allows and a replacement rear wheel as I rubbed mine on a curb a month ago. The wheel is waiting in the garage to be installed.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: Aerocoupe on March 20, 2019, 03:28:19 PM
Better get that wheel on that car...burnouts are always better without road rash!
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 21, 2019, 01:48:53 PM
Quote
I have a solid steering shaft I want to install when the time allows


Let us know how that goes/feels. I'd like to install one and some point and I'd like feedback on how much steering feel improves.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on March 22, 2019, 08:04:40 AM
Better get that wheel on that car...burnouts are always better without road rash!
I can't agree more, and a good coat of wax on the car.
Title: Re: Opinions on a new cam.....
Post by: vinnietbird on March 22, 2019, 08:05:57 AM
Quote
I have a solid steering shaft I want to install when the time allows


Let us know how that goes/feels. I'd like to install one and some point and I'd like feedback on how much steering feel improves.
It might be a week or two before I get the chance to install the steering shaft....But I will report the results.