Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Topic: Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup (Read 10459 times) previous topic - next topic

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #15 – January 22, 2014, 04:27:13 AM

Ok when the time comes around I will probably look into it more, depends on what I can find at the time.
For now i will use the stock mustang stuff up front and pretty much the stock TC stuff out back but 5 lug

It turns out the 96 mustang I have has a hydroboost setup which I do not plan on using, so I got my hands on a 93 cobra MC that came with a line kit from MM (this one http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Manual-Brake-Installation-Kit-1993-Cobra1994-GT-master-cylinder-in-1987-93-Mustang-P1099.aspx ), which I'm not sure if it will help me. Is this a 3-2 line kit?
From what I have read it works to convert the 93 cobra booster to fit a 87-93 5.0 brake system but will it work to fit my 87 TC which will use the stock 96 brake setup
I will be buying a 93 cobra brake booster, is that over kill or is there a different one i should get??
I will also be using a proportioning valve for the rear bias, the one from MM will work for my app right?

This is it

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #16 – January 22, 2014, 02:46:06 PM

Drewstang,
I just cannot see how you used the 99+ calipers on the 13" Cobra front rotors without some kind of fabricated bracket between the caliper and the spindle. Maybe I am missing something here but a bracket has to be built due to the 99+ V6/GT calipers being installed on 10.8" diameter rotors where the Cobra units are 13" in diameter. That is an increase in radius of 1.1" which dictates that need for a bracket to be made to move the 99+ V6/GT calipers out far enough to go over the Cobra rotors. The other issue is that the 99+V6/GT rotors are 1" thick where the Cobra rotors are 1.1" thick which causes interference issues with the rotor face and the body of the 99+ V6/GT caliper. They will physically fit over the Cobra rotor but they need additional clearance for any hard corning as this whole system flexes and the only thing that moves is the body of the caliper but if it cannot move far enough it will bind into the rotor. Again, maybe I am missing something but this is the only way I have seen this install and the guy ended up just installing the Cobra calipers on his car.

One other thing that you have to be aware of is the brake bias of the vehicle. The 99+ cars have a twin 45mm piston design on the front calipers. The Cobras have a twin 41mm piston design on the front rotors. It may not seem like much but with the 45mm units coupled with the 13" rotors it could cause some headaches. This is all track talk so it would not likely rear its head on the street but I race occasionally so I look at it from both sides. For something like this I would simply call Jack Hidley at Maximum Motorsports and have him run the calcs to clear this up but again it may not make an ounce of difference on a pure street car.

Darren

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #17 – April 15, 2014, 11:58:05 PM

Ok I finally have some cash to upgrade to 13" brakes up front, do I still need the 93 cobra brake booster?

I mean with all that leverage from the 13" brake up front, 5-lug converted turbo coupe discs in rear I really don't want a setup that is overboosted, I want a nice linear pedal. I don't want a pedal where the brakes come on too strong when the boost comes on.

Is anybody else here running 13" brakes up front with discs in the back?
If so, what master cly/brake booster combo are you running?

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #18 – April 16, 2014, 07:44:13 AM

It's going to be okay, not optimal but fine. I ran the 13" Cobra fronts with the SN95 GT rears for about a year until I had the time to install the rear Cobra brakes on my Coupe. The rear SN95 calipers have a 38mm piston where the stock Turbo Coupe calipers have a 45mm piston so there may be some brake bias issues which again may not show its ugly head on the street. The Cobra and SN95 calipers are identical with the exception of the caliper bracket which relocates the caliper outwards on the Cobra setup due to the larger diameter disc.

You will definitely still need the 1993 Cobra booster as a stock T-Bird or Fox Mustang booster will create a lot of pedal effort even with the 1" bore of the Cobra MC. Further, the 1993 Cobra booster and the 94-95 GT/V6/Cobra Mustang Booster as well as the 96-2004 V6 Boosters are basically the same with the difference being the bolt pattern at the firewall so its just easier to install the Cobra unit versus the SN95 unit. 1996 through 2004 GT's and Cobra's went to hydraboost just in case you were wondering.

Gut your stock proportioning valve and install the manual proportioning valve. Screw the manual unit all the way in and then back it off a couple of turns for a starting point. You want the rear brakes to lock up just before the front ones do. With the larger rear caliper pistons this may happen with the proportioning valve screwed all the way in as it does not completely block flow off when it is screwed all the way in. This is where the braking bias I was talking about comes into play.

Hope this helps.

Darren

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #19 – April 16, 2014, 04:41:28 PM

Yea the mustang I had was a 96 gt so I got no mc or bb from it.
And thanks, looks like I'm going with a 93 brake booster. Is one from a regular auto parts store fine or should I order one online somewhere ?

Also, I got my hands on some 94/95 front spindles and now looking to get the tie rod parts. Do I get sn95 inner and outer tie rods, fox inners w/sn95 outers, or do I get a bump steer kit? If so, do I go for the stud style or bolt through syle?
On the coolcats write up it recommends steeda sn95 ball joints but man are they pricy, can I just get normal sn95 ball joints and be done with it? My car is lowered a bit, sn95 vert springs in the back, 5/8 of a coil cut off the stock 87 tc springs on front, fox stang shocks n struts all around w/chuck adaptors out back.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #20 – April 17, 2014, 10:35:17 AM

As far as the booster goes it's just where you can get a good deal. If it's local or online it makes no difference quality wise. I try to do local just for potential warranty issues but it's not like boosters wear out every couple of years.

Tie rod ends...the holy grail question that never seems to go away. The outer tie rod locations on the SN95 spindles are further outboard than the Fox units. I have Fox inners with Maximum Motorsports bump steer kits on both my cars. When the Coupe had a stock style front suspension (stock K-member, coil springs, stock lower control arms) with 94-95 spindles I ran the tapered style bump steer kit and had zero issues. If you want to run the SN95 inner and outer tie rods you will most likely have to shorten the outers as the assembly as a whole will be too long to get the proper toe-in. This is by far the cheapest way to go and works just fine.

The Steeda ball joints are good units but the stock SN95 ball joints from an auto parts store are just fine. The design is better than that stock Fox units to begin with so I have just used auto parts store brands and not worried about it.

Darren

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #21 – April 17, 2014, 12:06:58 PM

And don't forget that SN95 tie rod parts are metric threaded, Fox are SAE threaded..meaning you can't use SN95 outer ends on Fox inner ends.

I did a 5.0 rack (15.1 ratio) swap into my 4 banger notch, used the original Fox inners, used new fox outer ends, SN95 ball joints (went with moog here-it's going to be a long term daily driver) on the fox c/a with '94 spindles, new rotors, and '99 calipers, brackets, and flex hoses. Plenty of "meat" threaded into the outer ends...I know some folks have said there isn't a lot of thread engagement...I didn't have that issue, for some reason.

I'm running 245/40 Nitto 555's on Bullitt wheels on the front...my issue is there's still negative camber. I don't want to put it in the shop and have them charge me and not be able to get it dialed in, or worse, screw something up.
I have some of those "offset" bolts when I took some parts off of a SN95 donor car a coupla summers ago...should I put them in and tweak on it more? The car is sitting on the stock 4 banger springs, with new shocks and struts...no lowering.

Other than that, everything about this went great. :)

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #22 – April 17, 2014, 04:55:06 PM

Sounds good, thanks, I couldn't do it without you guys
For the tie rods, the passenger inner tie rod on my TC is shot so I'm just going to replace both sides with new sn95 inners and outers and just modify them if I need to. They were dirt cheap on rockauto anyways.
My cousin is actually an alignment tech at a reputable body shop in town so I think this will be a perfect car for him to do when I'm done with it.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #23 – April 24, 2014, 02:04:53 AM

Finally getting some work done on my car and the parts are rollin in
Almost nothing is a bolt on so progress is slow, got my 93 cobra brake booster installed. Just like the early 87-93 mustangs it didn't just slide in so I had to "make it fit'' haha. The master cylinder is almost on, I removed the stock proportioning valve completely and am only going to run a wilwood manual proportioning valve. I needed 3 brake adaptor fittings and found 2 at AutoZone, I could not for find the last one anywhere but finally found a local company to order me one, should be here Friday.

For my rear setup, apparently the sn95 axle s and the 1/8" spacers are too large of a diameter to fit inside the mpv van rotors so I machined them to fit inside, just need to install them on my car now and see how well this combo really fits.
From what I have read on other forums some people had this issue and others didn't, I'm just hoping I don't run into any other issues.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #24 – June 13, 2014, 05:40:30 PM

Finally got an engine into my car and it runs great
I installed the Master cylinder, wilwood prop valve, and brake booster, got it all bled and working as it should. So far it still has the stock tc brakes, wheels, and tires and the brakes work extremely well so for anybody with a stock 87-88 tc wanting to go vacuum assist, the 93 cobra MC and BB with an adjustable prop valve is a great combo.
I'm sure it will work even better once I get my cobra brakes and fr500s installed.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #25 – June 14, 2014, 11:26:24 AM

Glad you got it up and going and the brakes work well. You will notice more difference with the Cobra brakes installed believe me. If you do not get the Cobra calipers loaded with pads I would suggest that you get some that do not dust as the FR500's are not the most fun to clean. I run the Hawk HP's and they dust a little but stop so good that I am unwilling to change them to anything else. I used to run the Hawk HP+ but good grief the rims would get dirty just sitting in the garage, I think the pads just shed dust like a short hair dog.

Darren

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #26 – June 14, 2014, 02:43:58 PM

Thanks man
Yea the set I got came with pads already but I don't know brand they are, quality looks good though so I'll run them for a little while
And really, hard to clean, I'm sure they can't be as bad as the stock snowflakes haha.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #27 – July 11, 2014, 04:30:19 AM

Just an update, I did get the front wheels fitted on
Everything bolted in pretty well: installed new sn95 ball joints, inner, and outer tie rods, 95 mustang spindles with hubs, 04 cobra rotors calipers n brackets
The sn95 tie rods were perfect in length and the cobra brake lines connected right up to my turbo coupe, no adapters or nothing.
I havent had a chance to see how well the brakes work with the new setup up front since I need to get an alignment but I'm sure it's going to stop on a dime
Now I just need to finish up the rear, I did get some used che control arms, some wheel bearings, and a Trac loc rebuild kit so those are definitely going on.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #28 – July 11, 2014, 08:24:36 AM

Good to hear it's working out. That news motivates me to go with the SN-95 brakes out back (but in 4 lug) and the larger Stang breaks (4 lug) up front. Keep up the work and keep us posted.

Need some advice one 5 lug swap/sn95 brakes setup

Reply #29 – August 22, 2014, 10:02:12 PM

Thanks Vinnie
I got the rest of my car done a while ago, just haven't posted on it, overall the rear end went together pretty well
Rebuilt the Trac loc using new steel and friction plates, reused 2 of the old friction plates per side since they still had plenty of meat on em, and used the 96 stang axles
One side needed one of the 1/8" spacers along with 2 shims behind the brake caliper to make it line up perfect, the other side went together just fine no spacers at all
The driver rear tire was rubbing so I had the rear fenders rolled a bit
It's running awesome nonetheless, brakes work insanely good, and I'm loving the look
I'll post some pics as soon as I get the chance

I'd like some advice on what would be the easiest and cheapest route to bring the rear wheels in a bit like 1/2" per side if possible.
I was thinkin Fox axles and north race car brackets but is this the only solution, I would like to keep the vented disc/ tc calipers
It rides fine for the most part but it rubs a tiny bit in certain situations for example getting out of my drive way when the rear end is fully extended in one side and compressed on the other