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Thread: Replacing Intake, throttle body- questions?

  1. #1
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    Default Replacing Intake, throttle body- questions?

    Getting ready to make some changes to my 87 Turbo Coupe and thought I'd run it past the braintrust.

    What I have in my car now-
    88 Lincoln LSC 5.0
    BBK shortie headers, Cobra 2.5in exhaust, X pipe, cats, Flowmasters
    MAF conversion, 70mm Ford MAF, calibrated for 19lb injectors
    Ford Racing 19lb injectors
    BBK thru fender air intake
    MSD 6A ignition
    A9L computer
    Stock intake w/ 1" spacer.

    What I plan on changing-
    Install 97 Mountaineer HO intake.
    Install 70mm throttle body calibrated for 19lb injectors. Any preference on what brand to buy? BBK, Professional Products? Will this work with my existing Ford 70mm MAF?
    Using the EGR spacer as a spacer, blocking it off. Need to keep it in place because of the BBK air intake. Is there a 2" 70mm blank plate available?
    Remove the smog pump and thermactor system, blank off ports at rear of heads. Install Ford pump delete bracket.
    Remove the TAD, TAB relays and vac lines. Will I get any codes?
    Also going to remove unnecessary Turbo Coupe wiring and re-work the existing wiring harness to clean it up.
    I would like to clean up the A/C lines if possible. Any ideas?

    The picture below is what the engine looks like now.


  2. #2
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    Looks like the picture didn't make the post.


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  4. #4
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    Ok. First, you don't calibrate a throttle body. No big. More importantly, Even though the Explorer GT40 intake is within 10% of the best aftermarket intakes available, the E7 heads I assume you're running are the second most shit heads you could run. That awesome intake is going to yield almost nothing.
    Two reasons why:
    1. Your heads are your bottleneck right now, not your intake.
    2. You're going to max out around 260 on 19# injectors, which is probably 20 past where you are now.

    You're about to add more air, but without heads, you're not going to add much. What you may do is max your injectors trying to match that extra air with more fuel, but that assumes you have or WILL add 1.7:1 rockers which would put you at about 100% duty cycle WOT on your injectors. 100% dc is a deadly proposition for fuel injectors, and in some cases, piston crowns. You need heads and injectors to go with that intake, even WITH a stock HO cam. A HO cam, even a late one (10 additional degrees exhaust duration) will max at around 300 without forced air and lots of fuel.
    See if you can get the heads from that 97 Mountaineer. A 97 may still have non P heads. If it has non P heads, it will have internal EGR in the intake, which will make your life easier. I'm not a fan of P heads. I have some, and I don't like them. I HAD early GT40's at one point, and they were better. Get the heads, find some 24# injectors, and swap the sample tube in your MAF to compensate for the injectors.
    Bonus: The head swap will eliminate the need to block off AIR injection ports on the back of the heads.

    Lastly, that's a sick clean engine bay.
    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73 LSD, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  5. #5
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    The stock lower intake is a biffer restriction then the e7 heads from everything I've read.

    I think he should bump up to at least 24# injectors along with the explorer intake as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the quick reply and the honest assessment. Somehow I knew this would not be easy on the wallet. The only thing I've collected so far is the intake, which is like brand new, the smog pump delete, and the 1" spacer. Didn't want to buy anything without more knowledge. Glad I asked the questions.

    Ok- new 24lb injectors, either late model GT-40 heads or aluminum heads. Any preference on aluminum heads? And more than likely a cam, lifters, 1.7 rockers. Preference on a cam?

    Next will be a throttle body and MAF set for 24lb injectors. Is 70mm good? Right now the intake is at 68mm so I'll have grind it out no matter what.

    I don't want to half ass the work on the car. I'll do what's necessary. Any input will be greatly appreciated.

    The way this is looking I might just end up pulling the motor. Might look for a new one depending on cost. The car runs great the way it is. Really fun to drive. Here in Nevada I don't have to park it for the winter. I won't take it apart until I have the right parts to finish it.

    I'm kind of anal when it comes to my toys. Especially the TC. I'll be able to clean up the wiring when I take it apart. See any problem with deleting the TAB and TAD?

    Thanks again for the advice and for keeping me from buying parts that won't work.

  7. #7
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    I will be replacing the upper and lower intake. Looks like it will take me longer than I thought.

  8. #8
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    You don't have to delete TAB and TAD, leave them connected to their vacuum solenoids, but delete everything else and the EEC will never know.
    You can look around for used or remanufactured injectors, and iron GT40 heads aren't difficult to find, nor expensive to buy, and head studs are a worthwhile investment (just be sure to use thread sealer on the bottom row). On the other hand, cam swapping gets pricey. I'd roll on the HO cam for now, and wait for a good deal or opportunity. When you do a cam, you'll want a double roller chain and new lifters. For clearance, if doing a cam in-vehicle, you'll be pulling the radiator and condenser out, though, you don't necessarily need to have the heads off. Some guys around here really like the Trickflow Trackmax stage 1, though lots of other guys have good success with the FRPP letter cams, do your own research. If you do the intake now and heads later, you'll be buying intake gaskets twice. A last note on heads: If you choose GT40 P heads, you MUST MUST MUST upgrade the valve springs and retainers or even with stock rockers and an HO cam, you'll bind the springs. This isn't a thing with earlier non P heads and you get a larger exhaust valve, not to mention less compression bump, which means you don't need 93 octane. I've spent some time in northern NV the last couple years, and I've seen that in most places your premium gas is 91 octane, which combined with the elevation in most of NV is a motivator to not go crazy with bumping CR. If we had knock sensors it might not be a thing, but it's a thing. Once you have done heads, cam and intake and swapped injectors, you'll really want to seriously consider having a tune done. Getting a tune necessitates MORE spending on parts, as the EEC IV isn't tunable on it's own. You can get a TwEECer, a Quarterhorse, or you can have a chip burned for you to install to the J3 port on the EEC. Reasons to get a tune rather than try to rely on a calibrated MAF are discussed heavily elsewhere in these forums, and I'd suggest you at least look those discussions over.
    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73 LSD, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  9. #9
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    I'm not going wild with this car. I've tried to keep it kind of stock looking with some horsepower. It's not a daily driver. I just started entering it in a couple of car shows and go to a weekly get together on Saturday mornings put on by a local dealer. My TC is the only one I have ever seen in a show of any kind here around Las Vegas. Most people don't even know what it is. I have had cars that you could barely drive around town and had to fix constantly. A 69 Roadrunner, new, 440, 4 speed, 410's. Also had a 13.5 to 1 383 for it. 64 LeMans, 4 speed, overbuilt 12 to 1 326, Offy tunnel ram, 2- 600cfm Holleys. Impossible in traffic.

    I want to keep it around 9.5 to 1. I don't know why but gas here in Nevada sucks. And we get it from CA. I run Costco premium in it all year round. Timing is at 14*.

    I will do my research as you suggest. This site is great as are the people on it. I've gotten excellent advice on some of my other work. I usually find the information, copy it to a Word doc and save it in a notebook.

    I have plans to put her on a dyno. Already have one lined up at a shop here in town. The guy that runs it worked for Shelby. As far as I can tell it will run me $800 for everything. That way I can have an idea of what the car is capable of and a tune that won't kill it. I will go down and talk with them about my plans and see if they have any ideas.

    Seeing as the heads are the weak point I'll look for some good heads, stay away from the "P" heads, and do the intake at the same time. You're right- I don't want to do things twice.

    I'll buy new injectors. Limit problems and just sell my 19lb ones. They have about 9000 miles on them.

    Thanks for your time and help. Greatly appreciated.

  10. #10
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    The gas is due to elevation. There is approximately 10% less air at 10k ft elevation. Since there is less air, you need less octane to prevent detonation.the gas would be the same or equal to 93 octane gas at an elevation of 4000ft or so and actually slightly higher at elevations above that. Its not worse gas, they just put less octane crap in it.

    I run my stock junk around 16*. In not saying stock h.o. stuff, I am saying stock s.o. stuff. We have about 10% ethonal. It both boosts octane equivalent and makes less power and gas mileage. I run it about 16* to get some power back, doesn't effect gas mileage or detonation.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

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