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Thread: 351W (427W) w/Canton oil pan is hitting steering rack

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar5.0 View Post
    What is the benefit to using a Fox Mustang K-member?
    From what I've read there is more clearance with the Mustang style mounts between the pan and rack when using a 351W block.

    Although using a non stock pan could throw that out the window. When I had my Mark VII (it used fox Mustang style mounts) the engine sat a bit higher off the K member than my Thunderbird.
    '88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 70mm TB, 76mm C&L MAF, 30lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, AOD with 2800 PI converter, 8.8 with 3.73 gears, 31 spline Traction-Lok, 31 spline Moser axles, 04 Cobra front arms, Maximum Motorsports extreme duty rear arms, subframes.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderjet302 View Post
    From what I've read there is more clearance with the Mustang style mounts between the pan and rack when using a 351W block.

    Although using a non stock pan could throw that out the window. When I had my Mark VII (it used fox Mustang style mounts) the engine sat a bit higher off the K member than my Thunderbird.
    Maybe, though most of the advice I read on how to deal with the interference with the steering rack on a 351W swap was on the Corral. The comment was "hit or miss" as far as interference goes. I dunno. I think I'll be good once I shave the shims I made down a tad.
    11.96 @ 118 MPH old 306 KB; 428W coming soon.

  3. #13
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    There's something else amiss. There are LOTS of Type 6 mounts out there in service.

    Those lower U-brackets are the same dimensionally as the stock lower U-brackets. You have an older set of mounts (As they're zinc plated and not powdercoated), but those brackets could be the very EARLY style, which were a little shorter and only had one location for the main vertical through bolt. (At least that's what I remember. The last iteration had a siamesed hole to accommodate the Fox (86-88) and MN-12(89-92) differences.

    If you have a set of your stock lower U-brackets, you can modify them. A 1/2" hole in between the two smaller bushing mount holes, and a welded-in reinforcement plate will suffice. That, or you can use a large OD washer under the head of the bolt from below.

    I have extra of those large OD washers if you'd like some. You can use them as spacers under the bushings as well as a combo reinforcement plate/spacer, as mentioned above.
    Long live the 4-eyes! - '83 Tbird Turbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck W View Post
    There's something else amiss. There are LOTS of Type 6 mounts out there in service.

    Those lower U-brackets are the same dimensionally as the stock lower U-brackets. You have an older set of mounts (As they're zinc plated and not powdercoated), but those brackets could be the very EARLY style, which were a little shorter and only had one location for the main vertical through bolt. (At least that's what I remember. The last iteration had a siamesed hole to accommodate the Fox (86-88) and MN-12(89-92) differences.

    If you have a set of your stock lower U-brackets, you can modify them. A 1/2" hole in between the two smaller bushing mount holes, and a welded-in reinforcement plate will suffice. That, or you can use a large OD washer under the head of the bolt from below.

    I have extra of those large OD washers if you'd like some. You can use them as spacers under the bushings as well as a combo reinforcement plate/spacer, as mentioned above.
    Thanks for the info. I'm guessing I jumped on these as soon as they were available, so early sounds right. There is only one hole for the vertical through bolt.

    I got the driver's side on, which was the one being the real pain, I just need to somehow get the passenger side PVC piece (between the u-bracket and k-frame) the proper thickness. I wish I had run a drill through the k-frame holes like I did on the driver's side. I'm just having an issue getting the bolt to start in the nut - it's barely squeezing through the slightly misaligned pieces. Are the long bolts 3/8"-24? I've tapered the bolt to aide in getting it started, but I'm having a heck of a time getting the 3/8"-24 die to grab the original threads without getting hungry. I think I'll get it after work, just having the issue getting the far end to start, though the front allows the bolt to slide right in easily.
    11.96 @ 118 MPH old 306 KB; 428W coming soon.

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    NM, I see it's M10. I got it in, just had to take a little more off shim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar5.0 View Post
    Thanks for the info. I'm guessing I jumped on these as soon as they were available, so early sounds right. There is only one hole for the vertical through bolt.

    I got the driver's side on, which was the one being the real pain, I just need to somehow get the passenger side PVC piece (between the u-bracket and k-frame) the proper thickness. I wish I had run a drill through the k-frame holes like I did on the driver's side. I'm just having an issue getting the bolt to start in the nut - it's barely squeezing through the slightly misaligned pieces. Are the long bolts 3/8"-24? I've tapered the bolt to aide in getting it started, but I'm having a heck of a time getting the 3/8"-24 die to grab the original threads without getting hungry. I think I'll get it after work, just having the issue getting the far end to start, though the front allows the bolt to slide right in easily.
    If you're Karl, in NH, you bought them in the first batch of Type 6's in '06.

    Not sure what PVC piece you're talking about, unless you're using something to shim the u-bracket up off the K-member to get the bolt through. Any reason to not use a floor jack to raise/lower the engine to make things easier? (Just curious if I'm missing something, or not). And yes, the bolts are M10, as you figured out. The original bolts are fine to use, if you still have them. They are tapered and the same thread as what's included with the mounts.
    Long live the 4-eyes! - '83 Tbird Turbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck W View Post
    If you're Karl, in NH, you bought them in the first batch of Type 6's in '06.

    Not sure what PVC piece you're talking about, unless you're using something to shim the u-bracket up off the K-member to get the bolt through. Any reason to not use a floor jack to raise/lower the engine to make things easier? (Just curious if I'm missing something, or not). And yes, the bolts are M10, as you figured out. The original bolts are fine to use, if you still have them. They are tapered and the same thread as what's included with the mounts.
    Thanks, I may look for the original bolts although I got the one's you supplied to work after grinding a bit of a taper on the end. Indeed I am Karl from NH - you keep immaculate records

    What's funny is I was actually hoping these were a little short, for hood clearance issues, so that worked out good. I still have 1/4" clearance even using a 1/2" spacer between the elbow and intake. This allows me to use a N2O plate kit if I desire. After thinking about what you said above, I think it would be more elegant to add big washers to shim the mount internally vs. what I did, which was indeed adding PVC "plate" pieces that I cut to size and drilled/counter-bored to clear the bolt head and washer. The difficulty was having the u-bracket too high to get the bolt through, so I had to machine the pieces thinner on my endmill (they started at about 1/4".) I was using a cherry picker to lift the engine up/down, so that wasn't an issue, it was just being stubborn whereas if I didn't shim both sides simultaneously, the engine would tend to slide to the passenger side.

    Anyway, the engine is down, and I finally was able to retire the cherry picker for now. I'm pretty excited about the amount of clearance I have, though the oil pan is still just barely touching the rack, thus I'm now thinking (since I have the most shim possible under the mounts) that shimming with the large washers may be the best "final solution". If I remove the shims, I'll need about 0.2" - 0.25" added in washers.
    11.96 @ 118 MPH old 306 KB; 428W coming soon.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar5.0 View Post
    Thanks, I may look for the original bolts although I got the one's you supplied to work after grinding a bit of a taper on the end. Indeed I am Karl from NH - you keep immaculate records

    What's funny is I was actually hoping these were a little short, for hood clearance issues, so that worked out good. I still have 1/4" clearance even using a 1/2" spacer between the elbow and intake. This allows me to use a N2O plate kit if I desire. After thinking about what you said above, I think it would be more elegant to add big washers to shim the mount internally vs. what I did, which was indeed adding PVC "plate" pieces that I cut to size and drilled/counter-bored to clear the bolt head and washer. The difficulty was having the u-bracket too high to get the bolt through, so I had to machine the pieces thinner on my endmill (they started at about 1/4".) I was using a cherry picker to lift the engine up/down, so that wasn't an issue, it was just being stubborn whereas if I didn't shim both sides simultaneously, the engine would tend to slide to the passenger side.

    Anyway, the engine is down, and I finally was able to retire the cherry picker for now. I'm pretty excited about the amount of clearance I have, though the oil pan is still just barely touching the rack, thus I'm now thinking (since I have the most shim possible under the mounts) that shimming with the large washers may be the best "final solution". If I remove the shims, I'll need about 0.2" - 0.25" added in washers.
    I kept track of every set of mounts that I sold.

    I should have a stack of those washers in the garage (even after the move), and if you haven't moved in the past 10 years, I still have your address. I can send you a few, if you need them.
    Long live the 4-eyes! - '83 Tbird Turbo

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck W View Post
    I kept track of every set of mounts that I sold.

    I should have a stack of those washers in the garage (even after the move), and if you haven't moved in the past 10 years, I still have your address. I can send you a few, if you need them.
    Sure. Yes, same address I can Paypal you whatever you need to cover it - let me know.
    11.96 @ 118 MPH old 306 KB; 428W coming soon.

  10. #20
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    I'm not too worried about that. Just need to dig them out this weekend.
    Long live the 4-eyes! - '83 Tbird Turbo

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