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Thread: Burning rich and stalls out

  1. #1
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    Default Burning rich and stalls out

    Hey guys, I just finished I guess what would be considered slightly more than an HO conversion on my 88.
    I'm running explorer intakes/injectors, gt40p heads, B303 cam, MAF conversion with SR CAI and A9L computer, and whatever else is listed under my picture.

    My car is an AOD and will stall out sometimes at stoplights and if I'm in reverse. It's also burning super rich to where it burns your eyes if you're around the car. Any help is greatly appreciated, as you guys know I'm a 19 year-old newbie.
    '88 Thunderbird LX 5.0
    Engine: FR B303 cam, GT40P heads w/ Trickflow valve springs, Explorer upper/lower intake, SR cold air intake w/ MAF
    Exhaust: shorty headers, BBK O-R X-pipe, glasspacks turned down
    Misc: 8.8 rear, Saleen SC replicas 17x8/17x10, Mach 1 front springs/SN95 rear springs

  2. #2
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    Codes would be a good start.

    The biggest effect on a/f ratio on an SD car is the map sensor. When you add mass air, the computer sees both the bap (map sensor without vac line) and compares that with the maf sensor to calculate air coming into the engine and verifies fuel ratio with the o2 sensors.

    Really though, codes should tell ya why it's running rich.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

  3. #3
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    Once you've resolved the running-rich issue, you may also want to get an A9P computer for that instead. http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ack-rules.html

    A9L is for a stick. The A9P has slightly different software. Based on the neutral safety / park-neutral indicator switch, it will command a slight kickup in idle to counter the load placed on it by the torque converter. Without this you can definitely have stalling issues with an automatic trans. Again this is not going to impact the rich fuel mixture problem you have, but once that's behind, the occassional stalling will be equally if not more annoying
    1987 20th Anniversary Cougar, 302 "5.0" GT-40 heads (F3ZE '93 Cobra) and TMoss Ported H.O. intake, H.O. camshaft
    2.5" Duals, no cats, Flowmaster 40s, Richmond 3.73s w/ Trac-Lok, maxed out Baumann shift kit, 3000 RPM Dirty Dog non-lock TC
    Aside from the Mustang crinkle headers, still looks like it's only 150 HP...
    1988 Black XR7 Trick Flow top end, Tremec 3550
    1988 Black XR7 Procharger P600B intercooled, Edelbrock Performer non-RPM heads, GT40 intake AOD, 13 PSI @5000 RPM. 93 octane

  4. #4
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    My stock 5.0 s.o computer wasn't prone to stalling. Plus its running rich.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

  5. #5
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    Oh, I see what you mean zonda... Lots of mustang guys run the stick computer behind the aod. Supposedly it is more responsive or something made up like that.

    Just run codes, it should give ya a really good idea what is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

  6. #6
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    I'd like to know more about the hardware you used for the MAF conversion, specifically, what MAF. The CAI will skew the MAF readings, and the Explorer injectors are of the EV1 type. These are things that can make problems for you. You need to tune.
    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73 LSD, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  7. #7
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    Swapped computer to an A9P today. Stalled once so far, but seems to idle better. I've heard A9Ls have better throttle response and that's why people want them.

    Next step is to run codes.
    '88 Thunderbird LX 5.0
    Engine: FR B303 cam, GT40P heads w/ Trickflow valve springs, Explorer upper/lower intake, SR cold air intake w/ MAF
    Exhaust: shorty headers, BBK O-R X-pipe, glasspacks turned down
    Misc: 8.8 rear, Saleen SC replicas 17x8/17x10, Mach 1 front springs/SN95 rear springs

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    Oh, I see what you mean zonda... Lots of mustang guys run the stick computer behind the aod. Supposedly it is more responsive or something made up like that.
    You know I'm an idiot. I HAVE a stick computer in the red car. So that's out. The response might not be optimum but it does work.
    It's probably BECAUSE his fuel mixture is screwed up, let's face it. It can't compensate enough for all of the external issues being input to the "idle signal".

    And I had always read that the fuel and timing curves were more aggressive with the stick computer. Basically a better tune, if "better" is defined as more power. Which we would probably all agree is better LOL
    1987 20th Anniversary Cougar, 302 "5.0" GT-40 heads (F3ZE '93 Cobra) and TMoss Ported H.O. intake, H.O. camshaft
    2.5" Duals, no cats, Flowmaster 40s, Richmond 3.73s w/ Trac-Lok, maxed out Baumann shift kit, 3000 RPM Dirty Dog non-lock TC
    Aside from the Mustang crinkle headers, still looks like it's only 150 HP...
    1988 Black XR7 Trick Flow top end, Tremec 3550
    1988 Black XR7 Procharger P600B intercooled, Edelbrock Performer non-RPM heads, GT40 intake AOD, 13 PSI @5000 RPM. 93 octane

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFoeYouKnow View Post
    I'd like to know more about the hardware you used for the MAF conversion, specifically, what MAF. The CAI will skew the MAF readings, and the Explorer injectors are of the EV1 type. These are things that can make problems for you. You need to tune.
    This could easily be it. Need to know more details. Some mafs are really picky about cold air intakes and bends and filters near the maf. Plus there are quite a few different calibrations of maf, and the 19# new styled injectors probably will throw a wrench in everything too.

    With the whole explorer setup and a h.o. cam, you might benefit from a larger throttle body and 24# injectors. This is also essentially the 93 cobra setup, so a mother computer swap, correct maf and some junkyard injectors out of a 460 might get ya away from a tune.

    Anyways, we really need to know more specifics, and of course codes.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

  10. #10
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    I wouldn't call your changes "slightly" more than HO, you've made major changes especially with that B303...

    If you haven't increased base idle to around 800-900 in gear it's going to stall, just a fact of life with a rumpy cam... Also if your torque converter is stock that will aggravate the situation, need something looser I recommend a 2800-3200 with the B..

    To make better power at WOT with that setup, you need to ditch the 58mm TB and go for a 65...






    My other rides (that actually do run & drive)

    1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed << New 49th Birthday Picture

    1972 Comet GT - 306 C4

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