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Thread: Burning rich and stalls out

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    Running codes is by far the easiest and cheapest trouble shooting step, as well as only taking about 2 mins and usually telling you exactly what is wrong.

    But most people would rather spend time and money on things they don't need then fix and drive the car.
    1000x THIS.
    -- 05 Mustang GT-Whipplecharged !! -- 87 5.0 Trick Flow Heads & Intake - Custom Cam - Many other goodies...3100Lbs...Low12's! http://www.fquick.com/V8Demon

  2. #22
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    Thanks guys. I'll keep you all updated.
    '88 Thunderbird LX

    Engine: FR B303 cam, GT40P heads w/ Trickflow valve springs, Explorer upper/lower intake, SR cold air intake w/ MAF
    Exhaust: shorty headers, BBK O-R X-pipe, glasspacks w/ turn downs
    Misc: 8.8 rear, Saleen SC replicas 17x8/17x10, Mach 1 front springs/SN95 rear springs
    &
    '74 F100 Custom 351W

  3. #23
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    Alright everyone - I'm older and a tiny bit smarter now. The car has been driven less than 1000 miles over the last 3 years. And now that I'm finished with college, I now have my own garage AND time to do what I've been needing to do for a while.

    *note* Stalling is not an issue anymore. Throttle just needed adjustment. And the car is not running rich, but is very lean.

    Here are the codes with my best guess on the issue:

    FOER
    21 Coolant temperature/sensor out of specified range - Temp gauge was telling me I was overheating, but the car never seemed to ACTUALLY be overheating. Always kept coolant full and just replacted thermostat, housing, and water pump. Replaced the stock temp gauge sensor but was giving me a reading that was bouncing back and forth, so I went aftermarket to see if I could get an accurate reading. Looks like I run 180-190 on an average day with no crazy readings.

    41 Lean fuel mixture - Using 19lbers, and guy at the dyno says he can tune it to solve lean fuel mixture. I'm sure the car needs a tune, BUT I'm pretty sure I'm running an aftermarket MAF and really have no information on it its size/specifications.

    91 Oxygen sensor issue, fuel pressure out of specified range or injectors out of balance - I never hooked O2s back up when I installed the X-pipe because I needed an extension for them. I guess I should probably do that?

    33 Canister or EGR valve not operating properly - honestly not sure here. Pretty sure I deleted everything EGR but kept the spacer and hooked sensors and what not back up. Probably where this is coming from?

    Addressing my lean fuel mixture: is this an issue that can mostly be solved by switching to larger injectors (let's say 24lbers?) and switching to a MAF that is calibrated specifically the injector size? Or should my focus be on having the car professionally tuned to solve the lean mix? OR combination of the two?

    Chime in as you please.
    '88 Thunderbird LX

    Engine: FR B303 cam, GT40P heads w/ Trickflow valve springs, Explorer upper/lower intake, SR cold air intake w/ MAF
    Exhaust: shorty headers, BBK O-R X-pipe, glasspacks w/ turn downs
    Misc: 8.8 rear, Saleen SC replicas 17x8/17x10, Mach 1 front springs/SN95 rear springs
    &
    '74 F100 Custom 351W

  4. #24
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    There are two coolant sensors, one on the intake and one on the heater core pipes on top of the intake

    Between that and the o2 sensors, is fix those two things before you throw any more money at it. Ignore the egr for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

  5. #25
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    This. But also:
    If you go to 24's you're going to either want an X3Z EEC or a tune. Calibrated MAFs cause problems as often as they don't. With an automatic, you're going to want a favorable spark table, and that works best with an accurate load calculation (basically, calculated volumetric efficiency or VE). Calibrated MAFs skew the load calc.
    I tune with a Moates Quarterhorse and I love it. I even have a bluetooth adapter connected to it now so I can datalog to my phone, or connect wirelessly with my laptop for really quick access to tuning.
    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73 LSD, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDawg148 View Post
    Alright everyone - I'm older and a tiny bit smarter now. The car has been driven less than 1000 miles over the last 3 years. And now that I'm finished with college, I now have my own garage AND time to do what I've been needing to do for a while.

    *note* Stalling is not an issue anymore. Throttle just needed adjustment. And the car is not running rich, but is very lean.

    Here are the codes with my best guess on the issue:

    FOER
    21 Coolant temperature/sensor out of specified range - Temp gauge was telling me I was overheating, but the car never seemed to ACTUALLY be overheating. Always kept coolant full and just replacted thermostat, housing, and water pump. Replaced the stock temp gauge sensor but was giving me a reading that was bouncing back and forth, so I went aftermarket to see if I could get an accurate reading. Looks like I run 180-190 on an average day with no crazy readings.

    41 Lean fuel mixture - Using 19lbers, and guy at the dyno says he can tune it to solve lean fuel mixture. I'm sure the car needs a tune, BUT I'm pretty sure I'm running an aftermarket MAF and really have no information on it its size/specifications.

    91 Oxygen sensor issue, fuel pressure out of specified range or injectors out of balance - I never hooked O2s back up when I installed the X-pipe because I needed an extension for them. I guess I should probably do that?

    33 Canister or EGR valve not operating properly - honestly not sure here. Pretty sure I deleted everything EGR but kept the spacer and hooked sensors and what not back up. Probably where this is coming from?

    Addressing my lean fuel mixture: is this an issue that can mostly be solved by switching to larger injectors (let's say 24lbers?) and switching to a MAF that is calibrated specifically the injector size? Or should my focus be on having the car professionally tuned to solve the lean mix? OR combination of the two?

    Chime in as you please.
    41 and 91 are lean left/right bank. You're getting those codes BECAUSE THE O2 SENSORS ARE NOT HOOKED UP. Hook the O2 sensors up before a tune or doing much anything else. Secondly replace the EEC-IV temperature sender in the heater pipe. That is causing the code 21.
    '88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 70mm TB, 76mm C&L MAF, 30lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, AOD with 2800 PI converter, 8.8 with 3.73 gears, 31 spline Traction-Lok, 31 spline Moser axles, 04 Cobra front arms, Maximum Motorsports extreme duty rear arms, subframes.
    '11 Focus, '12 Mustang 3.7, '17 Accord EX-L V6

  7. #27
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    Thanks for the insight guys.

    O2s are hooked back up and replaced the other coolant temp sensor (passenger side). Ran codes and here's what I came up with:

    21 Coolant temperature/sensor out of specified range - still being thrown even though I replaced passenger side sensor. I'm going to remove aftermarket gauge so I can hook the driver side sensor back up.
    94 Secondary air system inoperative & 44 Air management system inoperative - I assume these have something to do with me deleting my air pump from a few years ago.
    33 Canister or EGR valve not operating properly - still being thrown
    13 Normal idle not within specified range - I can adjust idle to make this code go away I assume?
    '88 Thunderbird LX

    Engine: FR B303 cam, GT40P heads w/ Trickflow valve springs, Explorer upper/lower intake, SR cold air intake w/ MAF
    Exhaust: shorty headers, BBK O-R X-pipe, glasspacks w/ turn downs
    Misc: 8.8 rear, Saleen SC replicas 17x8/17x10, Mach 1 front springs/SN95 rear springs
    &
    '74 F100 Custom 351W

  8. #28
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    Do the coolant temp sensor. The one in the heater pipe is the one the computer sees. The other one is just for the gauge.

    After that, id ignore the other codes. Do a basic tube up. The spark plugs might be all sooty from running rich for so long.

    You are on the right track.
    Quote Originally Posted by jcassity
    I honestly dont think you could exceed the cost of a new car buy installing new *stock* parts everywhere in your coug our tbird. Its just plain impossible. You could revamp the entire drivetrain/engine/suspenstion and still come out ahead.
    Hooligans!
    1988 Crown Vic wagon. 120K California car. Wifes grocery getter. (junked)
    1987 Ford Thunderbird LX. 5.0. s.o., sn-95 t-5 and an f-150 clutch. Driven daily and going strong.
    1986 cougar.
    lilsammywasapunkrocker@yahoo.com

  9. #29
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    Track down 21 first. If all the emissions stuff is gone the only other code to worry about is 13. If you adjusted the idle using the factory tach that could be an issue. The factory tachs are horribly inaccurate. I actually purchased a tach/dwell meter just to get an accurate tach for idle adjustment.
    '88 Thunderbird LX: 306, Edelbrock Performer heads, Comp 266HR cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Edelbrock 70mm TB, 76mm C&L MAF, 30lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, AOD with 2800 PI converter, 8.8 with 3.73 gears, 31 spline Traction-Lok, 31 spline Moser axles, 04 Cobra front arms, Maximum Motorsports extreme duty rear arms, subframes.
    '11 Focus, '12 Mustang 3.7, '17 Accord EX-L V6

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