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Thread: 5.0 Engine build - is 450hp n/a reachable?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 86T-bird View Post
    Wow... Being an old guy and having lived through the past 40 years tinkering with SBF Ford factory and aftermarket parts (well, once the aftermarket came into existence), I've found your comments in this thread interesting.

    Apparently you feel to have been challenged by comments of other members to build an engine comparable to the Coyote (which have been putting down ~400 RWHP) from a basic 8.2 block, OHV head, naturally aspirated.

    Please do so. Limit yourself to what ever parts you'd like. Build it, document it and then put 20k miles on it. It'll be a great guide to masses.

    I'm confident it can be done and look forward to the parts list, chronicle of assembly, dyno and performance numbers (costs would be nice too).
    Stick around long enough, I'll show you. Couple years maybe, I'm not made of money, but I promise you I'll give you exactly what you asked for.
    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  2. #32
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    Assuming a good 5.8 short block, this most of is what you need to make 443Hp...

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edelbrock-20...90a161&vxp=mtr

    - SOLD ----------- SOLD ------------ SOLD --------- PARTED(RIP) --- Yeah It's Got A V8 .
    .................................................. .....................................(Just Not Presently)

    1969 Fairlane Cobra 428CJ 4-Speed

    1972 Comet GT 306 C4

  3. #33
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    Wow...I seem to have induced arguments here lol. I guess If i want to build a monster supercharged engine comparable with the shelby gt500 and ford gt, id go with the 351 block. For the 5.0, I'm going to go for about 420, to match the 2013 Mustang GT. Anything higher than that is a risk, and I don't really need it anyway, there are speed limits :P. I'm assuming that "OP" in some of these poists refers to me, so I'll say that yes, I did plan on using aftermarket heads, namely, these Ford racing Z series ones (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6049-Z304P/)
    1988 Cougar LS - Enkei 92 Mesh wheels/BF Goodrich rubber - Mustang front and rear swaybars - 7.5 Posi - Full sony sound system w/ dual 10" subs - Energy Suspension Polyurethane - Dual power seats

    Still to come : 8.8 w/ disc brakes and 3:73 gears - 5.0 - Aluminum driveshaft - CHE tubular control arms - 11" brake upgrade w/ stainless lines (in progress) - someone to do the damned bodywork and paint

    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/338466...mercury-cougar



  4. #34
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    I was considering Z heads as well. I'm not aware of their driveability characteristics, but by the numbers, the port volume and airflow is there.

    OP stands for opening poster, or the person who initiated the thread.
    1988 Thunderbird 5.0
    GT40P, TFS-1, KB domes, 30#, MAF conversion, Explorer GT40 Upper/Lower, Smog delete, Wide Ratio AOD Mod, Unlocked Speedo, 3G Charging System Upgrade, Hi-Torque Mini Starter, 3.73, BBK 1 5/8 unequal headers, H-Pipe.

    88 Thunderbird/Cougar EVTM
    (Thanks to Trinom for hosting)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFoeYouKnow View Post
    I won't touch a 347 (crappy piston side loading, leading to a motor with a taste for rings).
    Times have changed.....there are kits long available that keep the pin below the oil ring. Ford Strokers I do believe sells a couple variations that don't have the oil issues. my buddy had one in a '95 GT stang. He had it for 19 thousand miles. Performed flawlessly, and ran in the mid 11's.

    But fact is, unless you go hog wild with cam and heads, and fuel issues are also resolved at those power levels....450 reliable horses with stock block and crank (nevermind the heads, you won't get that power with even mild ported GT40 P's) won't last if you gouge on it....and why build such an engine to only drive it like my granny?

    May as well figure in the cost of a 4 bolt block...take your pick of stroked 5.o, or even a stroker 351w-based block..myself, if cash wasn't a consideration, I'd have a 427w, but I can only build my dreams on paper at this point, but I do know what's workable, and what's merely a fart in the wind. A stock 5.0 block (I'll even spot you the 347 stroker kit and whatever heads you want) and you'll still NEVER come close to a reliable AND streetable 450 horse/torque level, period. I read an article once time a few years ago...some Mustang owner swapped a Nascar Cup 358 into his Stang (seems like it was a '94-'95). It ran well enough, but was worthless for stop and go stuff, not surprisingly. Those are basically what OP is after...all motor, crazy power....but...it comes at higher RPM. I'd rather have a monster torque hit down low in a heavy car.
    '87 Mustang notch , 5 lug, PBR brakes, 3.55 gears, SFC's, mild 5.0 with '40P's, Cobra intake, big cam, currently being assembled...
    '84 Mustang notch, no rear, no front suspension, tubular K member, 351w???? 460???? Hell, I don't know...flip a coin??????

  6. #36
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    no, I'm after the opposite actually lol. I want something with good torque and is good for a cruiser. I dont know about how the revs will be handled with an AOD, but I don't want to be sitting at 5+ grand all the time. Like I said, 450+ maybe was a little too much for me to think...thats getting into the territory of not being a daily driver motor anymore and becoming a handful. Like that link i showed a few posts back about the 399hp budget build...that's all I'm looking for really, maybe put a little bit better heads on it to boost it up just a bit more.
    1988 Cougar LS - Enkei 92 Mesh wheels/BF Goodrich rubber - Mustang front and rear swaybars - 7.5 Posi - Full sony sound system w/ dual 10" subs - Energy Suspension Polyurethane - Dual power seats

    Still to come : 8.8 w/ disc brakes and 3:73 gears - 5.0 - Aluminum driveshaft - CHE tubular control arms - 11" brake upgrade w/ stainless lines (in progress) - someone to do the damned bodywork and paint

    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/338466...mercury-cougar



  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFoeYouKnow View Post
    Stick around long enough, I'll show you. Couple years maybe, I'm not made of money, but I promise you I'll give you exactly what you asked for.
    Yes, time and money can create a situation where it could be tough to cash the check you've written on that promise! No worries though, I won't hold you to it.

    I suspect you'll have opportunites to build other combinations with few restrictions and offer a greater bang for the buck over the coming years.

    We happen to be in the greatest era of Horse Power Wars yet. Stuff just keeps getting better! The old stuff will gradually slide to the back of garage and be forgotten...

  8. #38
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    My Coupe had 318 rwhp/ 323 ft-lbs of torque (Mustang Dyno numbers and corrected for altitude) with the 306. I cannot tell you how many of the new 2011/12 Mustangs have seen tail lights, its about a car length every shift and then they just quit. They are a beautiful car but they weigh a ton and have no bottom end. You need to build the engine for what you want to accomplish and not worry about peak numbers, those are for dilrods that like to brag. Area under the curve is what moves the sheet metal.

    On another note, you may want to try a custom cam as they are not that much more than an off the shelf Comp and from what I have seen are worth the money. The cam is the brains of the whole deal and if you don't plan the combo out you will be wasting time and money. Work with a good engine builder and plan your build and have realistic goals. Also, building a 306 was the biggest mistake I could have made. The new 331 bottom end only ran me about $400 more and that is cheap for the additional cubes.

    Darren

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