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View Full Version : Should I have a non locking convertor?



TrickFlow347
02-07-2005, 04:35 PM
The other day we started talking about some problems that we had with our car last year and one was about the "bucking" issue...Mulitstate transmission said it was the torque covertor going in and out of lock and that it was normal, Well on my car I dont think its normal. At one point during our trans build, someone said that if we put a locking convertor on our car it would ruin our trans. well I looked up the part # and we did get a locking torque convertor so I guess what I want to know is what could happen to my trans or anything eles if we keep the lockng type? Should I have gotten the non locking? And is it 'normal' to have metalic flakes in the trans pan after a rebuild about 50 miles ago? (Ive heard it was for break in?)

For people that dont know my car here is a little bit about it:
its a 347 with 10.7:1 compression
Trickflow track heat heads and intake, stage 2 trickflow cam, 42lb injectors
3.73 gear 8.8 axel, 3200 stall TCI convertor on a built aod trans...the car has been estamated to have mid 400 hp

TrickFlow347
02-07-2005, 06:33 PM
I guess so! http://alternativeauto.com/waterbox/wb_archives/aod.html
This is where I was going to get my car tuned but I guess Ill be lucky if my car even runs this spring.. :(

TurboCoupe50
02-07-2005, 09:41 PM
Most folkes will say to go with a nonlockup converter, but I've been running a lockup in mine for 5 years..

I'm doubting the bucking is the tranny. Most AOD's shift back into 3rd from OD at approx 5 mph less than they upshift. In fact, if it does it at a constant speed between 1600-2000 rpms I gaurentee it ain't the trans. Mine does the same thing, and its the tune on the engine, a custom chip is the cure.

Also I've found disconnecting the memory wire(pin #1) on the EEC helps a lot. The way it helps me is, I can set the fuel pressure to eleminate the buck, but the EEC will pull out the extra fuel after a few startup cycles. Without the memory wire, the EEC has to start the learning curve over each time the engine is started.

CougarSE
02-08-2005, 12:00 AM
Doesn't the computer have to learn the engine before it can run at peak performance? I would just get a chip to fix it. If the computer had to relearn everthing it would never be at peak performance. Of course I may be talking out my ass right now because I know little about the subject.

TrickFlow347
02-08-2005, 11:59 AM
hmmm...
If the car will see only limited slick usage and drag strip time, it isn't necessary to change the input shafts. If the trans will be used behind a street/strip car that runs in the low 11s we install a higher quality little (3rd and 4th) input shaft, the primary shaft is fine at these power levels. For more serious efforts (high 10's or better) it's necessary to use the Art Carr one piece input shaft with a matched converter.

Will non locking convertors fit on the stock shafts? :dunno:

We only got to drive the car twice after we put the 42lb injectors on. the insurance was up for the winter and it bucked so bad after they were on you look like a rag doll in it, I wasnt sure if it was safe to drive? I dont know at what rpm but I think it bucks on deceleration mostly.. :dunce:

Ill mention the memory wire and see what they think.

chrome302jr
02-08-2005, 04:00 PM
In order to use a non locking converter you will need to use a one piece input shaft. If your main problem is bucking on decel, then there are a couple things to look at. AOD's are infamous for bucking at low rpm decels when the transmission downshifts. Mine only does it in OD, but I leave OD off when driving in the city. Mine doesnt buck in any other gear unless I am at a very low rpm(<1300rpms) and off the gas. You are probably way rich, one reason mine runs well cruising is becuase I have a nice 14.7A/F while cruising and even leaner when off the throttle. This helps the bucking problem ALOT. You will be fine with a lockup converter, in my opinion they are more practical for city driving, but of course thats just my opinion. I have been running a stock input shaft with a lockup TCI converter with no problems, and I beat on mine fierce, both on the track and the street. Many low to mid 12sec passes can take its toll on an AOD.

Thunder Chicken
02-08-2005, 06:55 PM
I was always under the assumption that a lockup will increase the life of the tranny by eliminating slip at cruising speeds. Most of the heat in a tranny is generated in the converter as it slips, so a lockup will reduce this heat. Also if you're running a high stall converter a lockup would be a good idea because if your stall speed is close to your cruising RPM the converter will always be slipping, generating buckets of heat. F'rinstance, my cruising RPM is 1500 @ 75 MPH (stock lo-po 5.0, AOD, 2.73 gears). If I installed a 2500RPM converter I'd be cruising way under the stall speed, and without a lockup I'd be generating a lot of heat, burning a lot of fuel, and not really getting anything done

Haystack
02-09-2005, 01:45 AM
I was under the assumption that at the least, the majority of these cars had lock ups installed from the factory. At least that is what my Dad said.

Thunder Chicken
02-09-2005, 06:12 AM
Anything with a C5, A4LD or AOD has a lockup. Most aftermarket hi-stall converters don't have the feature though

TrickFlow347
02-09-2005, 10:51 AM
Will the lockup convertor fit a one piece shaft? :confused: I was told by our trans builder that he built it for a non locking convertor,,, unfortunatly we didnt put the trans on so we havent seen it! we're going to drop the trans later this week and hopfully find out.

We were prepaired for a non locking convertor, I have a huge trans cooler and of corse the Trickflow trans pan. :cool: Ive been told from the begining to get a nonlocking convertor so I would feel more comfortable if I had one. I cant afford to ruin my tranny right now, Im being forced into buying my moms house so I guess my car will become a 2nd priority in June. :(

TurboCoupe50
02-09-2005, 11:06 AM
Will the lockup convertor fit a one piece shaft? :confused: I was told by our trans builder that he built it for a non locking convertor,,, unfortunatly we didnt put the trans on so we havent seen it! we're going to drop the trans later this week and hopfully find out.

We were prepaired for a non locking convertor, I have a huge trans cooler and of corse the Trickflow trans pan. :cool: Ive been told from the begining to get a nonlocking convertor so I would feel more comfortable if I had one. I cant afford to ruin my tranny right now, Im being forced into buying my moms house so I guess my car will become a 2nd priority in June. :(

For the AOD, lockup converters can ONLY be used with the stock double input shafts. There are nonlocking units available that use the double input(B&M and maybe a few others), but most use the one piece shaft.

Don't gripe about buying a house... One of the best investments you can make...

TrickFlow347
02-09-2005, 11:49 AM
Okay, well he said hardened imput shafts. I guess I can look into B&M cuz I know TCI doesnt have'em!


Don't gripe about buying a house... One of the best investments you can make...
Im used to being abel to spend all of my money on my car so having this put on me right in the middle of building my car is stressfull! :brick: Im excited too tho because its 2 acres with a 2 car garage for $265 a month :grinno:

MasterBlaster
02-10-2005, 08:18 AM
Are you guys talking about some weird after-market converters with their own internal lockup, because as far as I know, our AODs do the "locking" inside the trans by taking input from the inner shaft, which is directly connected to the converter shell, rather than the "conventional" means of using a clutch to lock the inner and outer turbines together.

luch90
02-14-2005, 11:19 AM
non lockup is nice but u will turn alot more cruising rpms. ive never like the way that aods are locked in third and fourth

TrickFlow347
02-14-2005, 05:09 PM
thanks, welcome back.

jimfulco
02-17-2005, 11:48 PM
I don't think AOD's have converter clutches. The converter is just bypassed in 3rd & 4th gears. Someone told me the bucking was actually the trans clutches slipping due to low rpm. Something about not enough pressure in the trans to keep them tightly engaged. I suspect it's true because mine only does it at very low rpm.

jcassity
02-21-2005, 10:45 PM
:mad: im not at all comfortable with the metal flakes you see after such a small amount of time. For christ sakes,, you should not physically ***SEE*** metal in the pan just yet. ,,,, maybe in a few more hundred miles id say "could be normal but keep your eye on it".

gezz, my AOD has over 200k and i dont have anything but perfect colored tranny fluid. I dont put any faith in that so called knumb skull bla bla bla break in theory. Best keep on em about the warrenty of the rebuild.

TrickFlow347
02-22-2005, 10:31 AM
I dont think there is much of a warrenty, local shops wanted way to much money and some wouldnt event touch our tranny. We took our chances with a private builder...he came highly recomended with the mustang guys around here, he was even credited in muscle mustang a wile back for building a trans for a 10 sec. mustang....our tranny was to be built to the same spects? ....I dont know... I guess well see!